# Will the map or flag of the USA ever change again? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 9, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478 "2010-04-09T01:11:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/61 "2010-04-13T01:59:13Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > Something in a royal blue with ring of 13 white stars around a bust of George Washington, “1776” in Roman Numerals on a little scroll at the bottom below his neck. Having presidents on our bills and coins is bad enough. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/62 "2010-04-13T02:00:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Congress has to ratify its admission, too. Right, but why wouldn’t they? We took Utah for chrissakes. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/63 "2010-04-13T03:04:25Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Right, but why wouldn’t they? We took Utah for chrissakes. Puerto Rico’s median household income is about $20,000 per annum, or approximately half that of the mainland U.S. ---
**Author:** ![This\_Just\_In\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@This\_Just\_In\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/This_Just_In_2)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/64 "2010-04-13T23:05:36Z")
Does the law allow the US to sell land to another country. I was thinking specifically of Point Roberts, WA. It is a cut off nothing piece of land to the US - but the land would be very valuable to Canada due to its proximity to a major city. So, could a cash strapped and heavily indebted US sell pieces of the country off, bit by bit, to another country? Maui to the highest bidder? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/65 "2010-04-14T00:52:45Z")
**Will the map or flag of the USA ever change again?** [Why yes, it will.](http://mansfield.edu/international/media/images/flag_china.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/66 "2010-04-14T02:52:21Z")
> [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](#): > > Umm, didn’t Canada just create a new territory? Yep, [Nunavut](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunavut). Created April 1, 1999. > And with about 10% of the population of Michigan’s UP. Canadian territories are created by acts of Parliament (in this case the _[Nunavut Act](http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/stat/sc-1993-c-28/latest/sc-1993-c-28.html)_ 1993), unlike provinces, which are created through constitutional amendments. Even there, the creation of Nunavut was the fruit of a couple of decades of land-claims process, and had the advantage that the territory in question was mostly ethnically homogeneous (83.6% Inuit). ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/67 "2010-04-14T05:03:18Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > **Will the map or flag of the USA ever change again?** > > [Why yes, it will.](http://mansfield.edu/international/media/images/flag_china.jpg) Y’know, I think that design has already been taken 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/68 "2010-04-14T05:36:25Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > Y’know, I think that design has already been taken 😃 I think they’ll let us use it. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/69 "2010-04-14T09:48:36Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > **Will the map or flag of the USA ever change again?** > > [Why yes, it will.](http://mansfield.edu/international/media/images/flag_china.jpg) > [@kidneyfailure](#): > > Y’know, I think that design has already been taken 😃 > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > I think they’ll let us use it. **AClockworkMelon** is “tea partying” his posts, I do believe. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/70 "2010-04-14T10:14:48Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > **AClockworkMelon** is “tea partying” his posts, I do believe. :rolleyes: I can’t resist a joke. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/71 "2010-04-14T10:18:08Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > I think the Senate will never allow another state into the Union, precisely because it would ruin the … even number of 100 senators. It makes it easy to calculate percentages of support for any given bill. I’m not surprised to hear political leaders are innumerate but _surely_ it’s not that bad! > [@Sampiro](#): > > -The secession of NYC from the state of NY? What would the two states be called? Surely not New York and Newer York. I thought New York was named after New York, so perhaps Upstate would have to adopt a new name. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Trivia note: If the states had kept their original borders, Chicago would be in Connecticut. This surprised me! Do you have a cite? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/72 "2010-04-14T10:19:24Z")
What with global warming I think changes are inevitable; I doubt we’ll be able to stop the flooding. For that matter, there’s also the possibility that if we don’t outright collapse, we could end up grabbing parts of Antarctica after the ice sheet melts. There are of course other possibilities. A nuclear war could easily cause the breakup of the country as it rebuilds from separate enclaves of civilization, for example. Or something similar could happen if the Yellowstone supervolcano erupts or some similar massive disaster. And as said, America like every other country isn’t going to last forever. So, of course the map will change. > [@Cisco](#): > > I believe the political divide in California is more urban/rural, or inland/coastal, than it is north/south. Just off the top of my head, Butte County in northern CA leans conservative, while LA County in the south is pretty liberal. There’s a fair amount of North/South tension too, and occasional talk of splitting. As the water situation gets worse and the South tries to grab water from the North (it has tried to do so in the past), I could see that leading to a split. That might cause splits elsewhere in the country; since we are using water faster than it is replenishing itself (we use a lot of water that was originally deposited underground in the last glacial period), eventually there are going to be water conflicts all over. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/73 "2010-04-14T14:28:56Z")
Sooner or later the United States will crack up the way the Soviet Union did, and for much the same reasons (i.e. economic and political paralysis, and racial and ethnic divisions). Most likely parts of the southwest with Hispanic majorities will either rejoin Mexico, or will become independent Hispanic nations. The rest of the United States will either split along regional lines or remain together, greatly weakened economically, politically and militarily. I’m guessing this will happen some time during the middle decades of this century, though I wouldn’t be surprised if it happened sooner. Or not. Hell, I’m not God. Nobody really knows the future. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/74 "2010-04-14T14:32:07Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Not if English is taught in Puerto Rico and Cuba followed by gradual cultural assimiliation after all Hawaii wasn’t particularly Anglo-American either originally. Getting english taught in puerto rican and cuban schools has major ramifications. it’d be landmark for 2 different reasons: 1. English isn’t the national language. To declare that schools have to teach in english would probably necessitate that declaration. 2. Schools are governed mostly on a state (or territorial) level. This would be a federal mandate on curriculum, which is something that we could actually use right now in light of the texas textbook controversy. neither of these things would be done easily, and would probably not happen for a very long time. also, hawaii’s annexation was pushed through because both dems and pubs were looking for votes to tip the balance of segregation laws. it seemed like puerto rico missed the boat on statehood after the passing of Obamacare. > [@](#): > > They will be easily able to dominate the economy of Cuba and be responsible for much of the investment there. unless the cuban population in south florida are also high powered executives of Chiquita and Dole (more sinisterly known as United Fruit and Standard Fruit) then i doubt that they would have any sway over the FDI of Cuba. Per example, you’re from San Fran. I’m sure there are just boatloads of Chinese-Americans in your area. Do you think the sizable sino-american population there has anywhere near the sort of clout that the very anglo Walton clan from ARKANSAS has in China? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/75 "2010-04-14T15:02:00Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Or not. Hell, I’m not God. Nobody really knows the future. Don’t sell yourself short there, or anything. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/76 "2010-04-15T02:40:29Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > [Chicago being in Connecticut]…This surprised me! Do you have a cite? Looks like he’s right. Check the map here: [Connecticut Western Reserve - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Reserve) This secession movement is unlikely to ever bear fruit. But if it were right on the border…: [Killington, Vermont secession movement - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killington,_Vermont_secession_movement) I tend to doubt that the map or flag of the U.S. will be changing anytime soon. Things are pretty well settled now, and likely to remain so (although annexing a post-Castro Cuba is an intriguing prospect; with an estimated population of about 11.5 million, it’d get two U.S. senators and about 20 Members of Congress right off the bat). ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/77 "2010-04-17T03:11:28Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Per example, you’re from San Fran. I’m sure there are just boatloads of Chinese-Americans in your area. Do you think the sizable sino-american population there has anywhere near the sort of clout that the very anglo Walton clan from ARKANSAS has in China? I’m a OC man actually. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478/78 "2010-04-17T06:39:24Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I much prefer the second one. Ew. The stars aren’t even equidistant. It’s like looking at a sphere as represented on paper. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-map-or-flag-of-the-usa-ever-change-again/535478.md?page=3)