# Will The Marvels flop? \[Open spoilers after post 112-ish\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [November 8, 2023, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-marvels-flop-open-spoilers-after-post-112-ish/992837 "2023-11-08T16:54:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-marvels-flop-open-spoilers-after-post-112-ish/992837/61 "2023-11-12T15:58:13Z")
The only difference in the marketing has been the lack of interviews from the cast due to the strike, other than that it’s been fairly standard. Maybe you just haven’t been paying attention. At the end of the day it is a fun movie with a great cast, and while knowing who everyone is and their backstory is certainly helpful it can still be enjoyed going in blind. Probably less though. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-marvels-flop-open-spoilers-after-post-112-ish/992837/62 "2023-11-12T16:00:00Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > For those who have seen it - could those with no previous MCU knowledge enter this cold and still enjoy it? It would be pretty tough, I think. It relies on you already being familiar with both the Kree and the Skrull and plot points of the first Captain Marvel. None of the good guy characters are introduced, with the assumption that you already know them. It starts off very much in medias res, with the media being ressed being the after-credits scene for the last episode of _Ms. Marvel_. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-marvels-flop-open-spoilers-after-post-112-ish/992837/63 "2023-11-12T16:10:55Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > It starts off very much in medias res, with the media being ressed being the after-credits scene for the last episode of _Ms. Marvel_. (Actually, I recall now that was the second scene of the movie. The first scene is the Big Bad finding the mate to Kamala’s infinity bracelet.) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-marvels-flop-open-spoilers-after-post-112-ish/992837/64 "2023-11-12T16:28:26Z")
US Weekend projections are at 47 million. Which is lower than the most pessimistic estimate that I linked at the beginning of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-marvels-flop-open-spoilers-after-post-112-ish/992837/65 "2023-11-12T16:45:12Z")
The MCU has run its course. They did incredibly well, but people do eventually get tired of almost anything, and the quality is near-universally mediocre now - but then it could hardly be otherwise when there’s pressure to pump out content as fast as they do. Actually, maybe it’s just superhero stuff in general; “The Flash” also did not do well (granted, its star is a major league nutcase) and I will be surprised if the Aquaman sequel does well. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-marvels-flop-open-spoilers-after-post-112-ish/992837/66 "2023-11-12T16:48:19Z")
I’ve beaten this drum before, but to me it’s a big problem if the uninitiated can’t enter into franchise fairly easily. The ideal is that each project works as something standalone, _and_ has depth that the students of the universe appreciate as well. I think of as similar to great music or art. I am not a musician or a student of musicology. I am not an artist or very knowledgeable of art history. A symphonic work or a sculpture works for me on one level. Those with more knowledge will get the technical appreciation and place in the stream of history that whoosh over me. But my appreciation is still there. Maybe I’ll be inspired to learn more too. But unless I can enjoy it without the previous knowledge I definitely won’t. These projects need to appeal beyond the (shrinking) base of established and frankly aging fans. Having your fans people deciding between this or The Holdovers (which was pretty good) is not what you want. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-marvels-flop-open-spoilers-after-post-112-ish/992837/67 "2023-11-12T16:52:12Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Actually, maybe it’s just superhero stuff in general; “The Flash” also did not do well (granted, its star is a major league nutcase) and I will be surprised if the Aquaman sequel does well. Also a failure, _Shazam 2_. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-marvels-flop-open-spoilers-after-post-112-ish/992837/68 "2023-11-12T16:59:51Z")
Heck, I forgot that one came out. And I really liked the first one. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-marvels-flop-open-spoilers-after-post-112-ish/992837/69 "2023-11-12T17:05:29Z")
Not a failure: Guardians 3, Spiderverse sequel. It’s not super heroes, it’s bad movies. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-marvels-flop-open-spoilers-after-post-112-ish/992837/70 "2023-11-12T17:39:31Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > These projects need to appeal beyond the (shrinking) base of established and frankly aging fans. If they are going for comic fans, they are being too conservative. I want to see a team-up movie with Ms. Marvel, Squirrel Girl, Gwenpool, Howard the Duck, and Jeff the land shark against someone. Possibly [B.R.O.D.O.K.](https://www.cbr.com/west-coast-avengers-brodok-sexy-modok/). ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-marvels-flop-open-spoilers-after-post-112-ish/992837/71 "2023-11-12T17:47:20Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > If they are going for comic fans, they are being too conservative. I’d agree but not the way you seem to mean! Comic book fans is way too small a universe to support a movie franchise, even they all showed up. Past MCU fans is even too small because they won’t all show up every time with so much to see and changing tastes. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-marvels-flop-open-spoilers-after-post-112-ish/992837/72 "2023-11-12T18:03:48Z")
My wife knows almost nothing about the MCU and followed the movie just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-marvels-flop-open-spoilers-after-post-112-ish/992837/73 "2023-11-12T18:19:45Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I really liked the first one. The first Shazam is great, a genuine surprise. The second Shazam is a war crime. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-marvels-flop-open-spoilers-after-post-112-ish/992837/74 "2023-11-12T18:30:36Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Two things about Marvel that make “superhero” fatigue a unique problem, at least for me. The first is that the stakes are always epic. Spiderman can, generally, be a simple story about Peter Parker’s lonely struggle with power and responsibility, but by the end of every Spiderman series he’s saving the literal world. Infinity War ramped up the stakes to half of the life in the entire universe. Where do you go from there? You go somewhere that audiences struggle to connect with. I just can’t get worked up when the stakes are “everything” in every movie. I need some character pieces thrown in there, which is what the Infinity Saga did really well. Even with “saving the universe” there has to be some personal story to connect with. Avengers was just as much about Thor and Loki’s relationship as it was an alien invasion flick. > [@steronz](#): > > The other problem is all the punching. I just get bored watching invincible people punch each other. Yeah, I find that confusing. Certain characters are basically indestructible until the right character punches them or chops them with a magic ax. And the thing is, I’ve seen Carol Danvers punch through a space battleship already. She’s a bit of a Mary Sue. “Vers” was an elite Kree soldier. Then surprise surprise, she’s really Carol Danvers from Earth where she’s an elite fighter pilot. Then once she unpacks all her baggage, as Captain Marvel she’s now arguably the most powerful superhero in the MCU. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-marvels-flop-open-spoilers-after-post-112-ish/992837/75 "2023-11-12T18:36:43Z")
It was the bad guy that I had trouble with. She can take on the three Marvels at once, one being powerful enough to re-ignite a fucking sun, but gets taken out by…a falling wall. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-marvels-flop-open-spoilers-after-post-112-ish/992837/76 "2023-11-12T18:55:16Z")
Maybe not superhero fatigue, but definitely crossover fatigue. There is no way the casual fan can keep track of it all. It’s the reason many Marvel and DC comic book fans walk away from titles by those companies. I find the same kind of fatigue when it comes to new Star Wars output. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-marvels-flop-open-spoilers-after-post-112-ish/992837/77 "2023-11-12T18:59:38Z")
I can believe crossover fatigue. Also being closely related to that trash heap that was Secret Invasion did this movie no favors, even though it was completely ignored and played zero part in anything. ---
**Author:** ![Jackson99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@Jackson99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackson99)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-marvels-flop-open-spoilers-after-post-112-ish/992837/78 "2023-11-12T19:32:18Z")
Well if there is super hero fatigue happening now may be it is time for pause and back to 90s sci fi and cop shows that lot people watched back than before super hero movies became thing in 2000s But again with endless comic books I don’t think super hero movies will be running out of story’s any time soon. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-marvels-flop-open-spoilers-after-post-112-ish/992837/79 "2023-11-13T11:28:21Z")
The trailer really did not do this film justice. Usually superhero trailers include all the exciting action stuff and clever lines; based on the trailer I thought this was going to be entirely based around the wacky hijinks ensuing from the place-swapping thing but my god, the writing in this was so freaking good. I laughed **a lot**. Larson and Parris finally got some decent material (Vellani kicked ass as usual). It didn’t wear out its welcome. Definitely one of the best post-Endgame films that didn’t involve Spider-Man. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-marvels-flop-open-spoilers-after-post-112-ish/992837/80 "2023-11-13T12:25:05Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Vellani kicked ass as usual Ms. Vellani almost carried the whole movie all by her lonesome. And the way they set up the pre-credits tag: Kamala mirroring word-for-word to Kate what Fury said to Stark in the post-credits for _Iron Man_. Young Avengers, anyone? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-marvels-flop-open-spoilers-after-post-112-ish/992837.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-marvels-flop-open-spoilers-after-post-112-ish/992837.md?page=5)