# Will the pro amnesty and sanctuary city movements hurt democrats? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 21, 2018, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-pro-amnesty-and-sanctuary-city-movements-hurt-democrats/810956 "2018-03-21T12:43:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-pro-amnesty-and-sanctuary-city-movements-hurt-democrats/810956/41 "2018-03-21T19:53:26Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Do you complain when posters link to left wing editorials? If so, why not? Let the right-wing whining begin! ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-pro-amnesty-and-sanctuary-city-movements-hurt-democrats/810956/42 "2018-03-21T21:58:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Thank you for your concern(and your links to FoxNews , Breitbart and right wing editorials), **Urbanredneck**. I have no doubt you are looking out for the best interests of the Democratic Party, and I look forward to your wholehearted support when it comes to the next election. Well if the lamestreet news would cover things like this, I would have used them as sources but as usual, they ignore it. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-pro-amnesty-and-sanctuary-city-movements-hurt-democrats/810956/43 "2018-03-21T22:03:25Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > That’s not really a learning experience, though, just an application of your own faulty premise, which may have the unfortunate effect of helping reinforce your own faulty premise to you, whence confirmation bias. > > Anyway, there’s no point being coy or immature about it, the vast majority of people who sneak into the U.S. or overstay their visits to the U.S., aren’t doing so because they want to steal something from citizens of the U.S. - they do so because there are people in the U.S. willing to hire and pay them. If you think these jobs are being “stolen” from you, grow up - the jobs weren’t yours to begin with, or if they were, why aren’t you doing them? It turns out because the people in the U.S. willing to hire and pay foreigners don’t have to pay foreigners as much, they can charge less for their goods and services. If you think those jobs were “stolen” from Americans and that Americans should be doing them, grow up _and_ get ready to pay more. In any case, stop pretending it’s some kind of morality test - the illegal immigrants are in the U.S. because there’s a demand for them. You can only choose to be adult about it or not. Yes, most of them are good. But some are bad. Why should California democrats shield criminals from being deported? I mean imagine the scenario of an Oakland police. A guy is about to be let out of jail for serving a sentence for say assault. He is also in the country illegally. Why NOT hand them over to ICE so he can then be deported? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-pro-amnesty-and-sanctuary-city-movements-hurt-democrats/810956/44 "2018-03-21T22:05:44Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Republicans don’t care about crime or safety, they care about white nationalism. They are just using crime and ‘rule of law’ as an excuse to engage in white nationalist purges of non-whites and immigrants. > > Will sanctuary cities hurt democrats? Probably among some voters. But a lot of voters know that the GOP war on blacks, immigrants and muslims is at root about white nationalism, and they’d be more upset if the democrats didn’t protect the victims of these GOP attempts. For a lot of democrats, if the democratic party refuses to protect victims of white nationalism, that will make a lot of democrats stay home and decide not to bother voting for the dems. If our only choices are republicans or a bunch of wimps who are scared of republicans (aka democrats), why bother voting? Most people who are upset about immigration are already republicans. Most democrats see through the bullshit and know that the GOP is at root motivated by white nationalist agendas and want the democrats to stand firm in resisting this, and protecting the victims of white nationalism. > > Whatever people who have left the democratic party due to white nationalism are already gone. They aren’t coming back. At this point, the democratic party is made of people who believe in multiculturalism and resisting white nationalism. > > Also conservative white men are the biggest source of pro-fascist politics and one of the biggest sources of domestic terrorism. Just throwing that out there for people who like to say ‘look what black person XYZ did’ or ‘look what immigrant XYZ did’. Well, as a class, angry conservative white men are the biggest threat to democracy we are facing. So if I have have a family member hurt by an illegal, and I am angry and want them deported, that makes me a white nationalist? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-pro-amnesty-and-sanctuary-city-movements-hurt-democrats/810956/45 "2018-03-21T22:11:12Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Yes, most of them are good. > > But some are bad. Why should California democrats shield criminals from being deported? > > I mean imagine the scenario of an Oakland police. A guy is about to be let out of jail for serving a sentence for say assault. He is also in the country illegally. Why NOT hand them over to ICE so he can then be deported? It is UNCONSTITUTIONAL for local or state law enforcement to hold people on the say-so of ICE. The courts have said this repeatedly. If ICE can’t bother to send officers to pick them up when they’re released, that’s ICE’s problem. It’s lazy law enforcement to expect local authorities to violate the Constitution just because ICE doesn’t want to be there to pick them up. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-pro-amnesty-and-sanctuary-city-movements-hurt-democrats/810956/46 "2018-03-21T22:13:08Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Well if the lamestreet news would cover things like this, I would have used them as sources but as usual, they ignore it. “Lamestreet” – that’s clever. Did you come up with that all by yourself? :rolleyes: (And the reason they didn’t cover it was because it was, as pointed out, not true.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-pro-amnesty-and-sanctuary-city-movements-hurt-democrats/810956/47 "2018-03-21T22:14:35Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Yes, most of them are good. > > But some are bad. Why should California democrats shield criminals from being deported? By “criminal” do you mean someone who actually commits crimes in the U.S. or are all illegal immigrants criminals by definition? > [@](#): > > I mean imagine the scenario of an Oakland police. A guy is about to be let out of jail for serving a sentence for say assault. He is also in the country illegally. Why NOT hand them over to ICE so he can then be deported? It’s not the job of Oakland PD to determine if someone is in the country legally, is it? I suppose if ICE wants to take custody of him, the burden is on ICE to be ready to do so the day of his release, not on the Oakland PD to hold the guy until ICE finds it convenient to send someone to pick him up. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-pro-amnesty-and-sanctuary-city-movements-hurt-democrats/810956/48 "2018-03-21T22:19:46Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Yes, most of them are good. > > But some are bad. Why should California democrats shield criminals from being deported? > > I mean imagine the scenario of an Oakland police. A guy is about to be let out of jail for serving a sentence for say assault. He is also in the country illegally. Why NOT hand them over to ICE so he can then be deported? Personally, I think it would be good policy to have a person convicted of a violent or serious offense be deported after their sentence. But I don’t see why states should really care that much about nonviolent offenders needing to be deported. Like, some guy here illegally has a job, supports his family, pays taxes, and happens to get arrested for having a joint in his pocket. I don’t particularly think there is an imperative for local authorities to enforce a law they have no jurisdiction over if they generally believe that the guy is overall making a contribution to the community. If Federal law enforcement wants to do its own job and find the guy and deport him, well, thats their job and I can understand that ICE will prioritize its law enforcement role over actually caring whether the community is improved with that person remaining there, strictly as a practical matter. To say it another way, I think most people are starting to come to the conclusion that zero tolerance enforcement of laws is a substitute for judgment and reason. Since localities have the luxury of being able to exercise judgment in such cases, I’m not bothered by it if they do. But just as I think zero tolerance policies are kind of dumb, I would also agree that total tolerance policies are also unwise. But question for you: do you support zero tolerance policies in general? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-pro-amnesty-and-sanctuary-city-movements-hurt-democrats/810956/49 "2018-03-21T22:29:54Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Yes, most of them are good. > > But some are bad. Why should California democrats shield criminals from being deported? > > I mean imagine the scenario of an Oakland police. A guy is about to be let out of jail for serving a sentence for say assault. He is also in the country illegally. Why NOT hand them over to ICE so he can then be deported? California doesn’t shield criminals from being deported. Where did you get that idea? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-pro-amnesty-and-sanctuary-city-movements-hurt-democrats/810956/50 "2018-03-21T22:40:44Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Well if the lamestreet news would cover things like this, I would have used them as sources but as usual, they ignore it. Are you seriously defending that Breitbart article? No one frigging booed the parents of murdered kids. How the hell can you possibly believe that? ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-pro-amnesty-and-sanctuary-city-movements-hurt-democrats/810956/51 "2018-03-21T22:46:09Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > So if I have have a family member hurt by an illegal, and I am angry and want them deported, that makes me a white nationalist? it does mean that you are the victim of fallacious reasoning. The Idea that a crime committed by an undocumented immigrant is a crime that wouldn’t have happened if that immigrant was not here, is not born out by any data. Cities of equal size and equal economic status have an equal number of major crimes, regardless of their population demographic. That specific person wouldn’t have hurt you, it’s true, but someone else, native or other, would have hurt some other victim. You may feel better by having that person deported, but it does nothing for the overall crime rate. The tack that many use - that doing more to prevent illegal immigration and doing more to deport the undocumented, would reduce crime is just wrong. And wanting to punish an entire ethnic community for the actions of it’s criminals can be seen as racist. mc ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-pro-amnesty-and-sanctuary-city-movements-hurt-democrats/810956/52 "2018-03-21T23:02:51Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Are you seriously defending that Breitbart article? No one frigging booed the parents of murdered kids. How the hell can you possibly believe that? It would never happen unless they’re parents of kids murdered by a mass shooter who are advocating more restrictive gun laws, and then the boo-ers are usually right-wingers. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-pro-amnesty-and-sanctuary-city-movements-hurt-democrats/810956/53 "2018-03-21T23:03:49Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > It is UNCONSTITUTIONAL for local or state law enforcement to hold people on the say-so of ICE. The courts have said this repeatedly. If ICE can’t bother to send officers to pick them up when they’re released, that’s ICE’s problem. It’s lazy law enforcement to expect local authorities to violate the Constitution just because ICE doesn’t want to be there to pick them up. Let the left-wing whining begin! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-pro-amnesty-and-sanctuary-city-movements-hurt-democrats/810956/54 "2018-03-21T23:05:33Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Let the left-wing whining begin! Yes, discussing constitutionality is exactly the same as “Whyyyy is this message board SOO UNFAIR to right-wingers?!” ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-pro-amnesty-and-sanctuary-city-movements-hurt-democrats/810956/55 "2018-03-21T23:11:14Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Let the left-wing whining begin! Yeah, stupid left-wingers whining about “rights” and “the constitution.” Plargh. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-pro-amnesty-and-sanctuary-city-movements-hurt-democrats/810956/56 "2018-03-22T00:48:43Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Ouch. And bravo. Yeah, I’m simultaneously proud and not-proud of that one. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-pro-amnesty-and-sanctuary-city-movements-hurt-democrats/810956/57 "2018-03-22T03:13:44Z")
Fortunately, you and the rest of the SDMB don’t get to decide what is or is not Constitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-pro-amnesty-and-sanctuary-city-movements-hurt-democrats/810956/58 "2018-03-22T03:23:57Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Fortunately, you and the rest of the SDMB don’t get to decide what is or is not Constitutional. Nobody does, it’s purely a matter of opinion. Some people, though, have the authority to put their opinions into force. None of those people are _here_, of course. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-pro-amnesty-and-sanctuary-city-movements-hurt-democrats/810956/59 "2018-03-22T03:29:11Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Nobody does, it’s purely a matter of opinion. No, it’s not, it’s a matter of law. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-pro-amnesty-and-sanctuary-city-movements-hurt-democrats/810956/60 "2018-03-22T03:32:55Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > No, it’s not, it’s a matter of law. And interpretations of law are based on opinion. This isn’t math or science where there’s some demonstrable and repeatable correct answer; what one court rules as constitutional can be readily ruled unconstitutional by a different court or even the same court a decade later. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-pro-amnesty-and-sanctuary-city-movements-hurt-democrats/810956.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-pro-amnesty-and-sanctuary-city-movements-hurt-democrats/810956.md?page=4)