# Will The Republicans ever figure out why they lost? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224 "2012-12-26T21:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 116
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2301 "2014-01-20T16:59:37Z")
Well, now we’ve got the midterms coming up. Have the Pubs learned any lessons they might apply this year? ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2302 "2014-01-20T17:15:16Z")
Some of them have. But the real question is, will they apply those lessons. Or rather, will they be able to. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2303 "2014-01-20T17:19:56Z")
> [@Lok](#): > > Some of them have. But the real question is, will they apply those lessons. Or rather, will they be able to. You mean whether they will be ALLOWED to. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2304 "2014-01-20T17:28:00Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > You mean whether they will be ALLOWED to. Allowed by whom? Party leaders, or Tea Party challengers? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2305 "2014-01-20T17:37:05Z")
Yes. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2306 "2014-01-20T17:40:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Allowed by whom? Party leaders, or Tea Party challengers? By the base, which in GOP primaries has shown itself to believe that any electoral failure was due to not being batshit enough. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2307 "2014-01-20T17:41:37Z")
Well, the first lesson learned has been, don’t get in the way when Democrats are destroying themselves. The focus for the next 11 months should be on Obamacare. And Democrats should want it that way too. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2308 "2014-01-20T17:44:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well, the first lesson learned has been, don’t get in the way when Democrats are destroying themselves. The focus for the next 11 months should be on Obamacare. And Democrats should want it that way too. You’ll never live to see it repealed, you know. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2309 "2014-01-20T17:45:35Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Yes. I have to disagree with you, **'luc**. Party leaders are generally wishing that the Tea Party would fall into a nice, deep hole soonest. Even the grifterati that make up the Tea Party leadership are beginning to notice that doubling down on the cray-cray has diminishing returns. It’s the wingnut base that’s playing the role of the proverbial tiger, and the leadership of both factions that are trying to figure out a way to stick the dismount without getting eaten. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2310 "2014-01-20T17:51:03Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > You’ll never live to see it repealed, you know. Probably not the whole bill anymore, but Republicans can still remake it in their image. If Democrats want to call that “Obamacare”, and call it a win, they can if they want to. On the flip side, you’ll never see single payer in your lifetime. In fact, I bet that if ACA survives, it will be extended to the whole nation and we’ll get rid of Medicare. Although, if the bill polls poorly in 2016 and the GOP has the White House and both chambers of Congress, they might just repeal it to send a message. It’s not like the Democrats will see 60 Senate seats for a long time, nor will they reacquire the balls to try the same thing again. The price of repeal is just an election or two, but the setback to further social engineering will last a very long time. Democrats NEED ACA to be as invincible as SS and Medicare. Once they see that their entitlements can indeed by repealed, it will be a long time before they are willing to make short term political sacrifices to get more entitlements passed. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2311 "2014-01-20T18:03:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Probably not the whole bill anymore, but Republicans can still remake it in their image. It was made in their image in the first place, remember? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2312 "2014-01-20T18:04:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Probably not the whole bill anymore, but Republicans can still remake it in their image. If Democrats want to call that “Obamacare”, and call it a win, they can if they want to. > > On the flip side, you’ll never see single payer in your lifetime. In fact, I bet that if ACA survives, it will be extended to the whole nation and we’ll get rid of Medicare The fact that Vermont is doing single payer even with an ACA framework shows that you are wrong once again. > **[BuzzFlash](https://buzzflash.com/)** > > Progressive political news & commentary since May 2000. BuzzFlash offers original, curated, and user-generated articles that inform, engage, and inspire! > [@](#): > > Amidst the difficulties of rolling out the private insurance company model of the Affordable Healthcare Act (ACA), it has almost gone unnoticed by the national corporate media that one state is going ahead with plans for a “single-payer” non-profit system to be implemented by 2017. > > Back in 2011, the Vermont legislature passed and Governor Peter Shumlin (D) signed the “single-payer” goal into law, which has its signifying slogan: “Everybody in, nobody out.” > > This “Medicare for all” precedent was made possible by the latitude allowed in the ACA for states to create their own health insurance models. And as I posted before, yet another item that shows that Media Matters was more on the money when they reported that the ACA allowed for states to plug in things like a public option and single payer to the ACA. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2313 "2014-01-20T18:21:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Probably not the whole bill anymore, but Republicans can still remake it in their image. Still waiting for the “replace” part. Time’s running out for it, though. > [@](#): > > If Democrats want to call that “Obamacare” The \*Republicans \*want to call it that, thinking it hangs something around the Dummycraps’ necks. Remember Romney trying that in the debates? How’d that work out for him? > [@](#): > > On the flip side, you’ll never see single payer in your lifetime. In fact, I bet that if ACA survives, it will be extended to the whole nation and we’ll get rid of Medicare. WTF do you think Medicare is, but “socialized medicine” that constitutes a single-payer public option for those over 65 and the younger disabled? Have you thought about this at all? We’ve \*already \*got the system in place - the only thing left to do is phase in expanded eligibility for it, as the ACA bill would have done without the filibuster. > [@](#): > > Although, if the bill polls poorly in 2016 It isn’t a bill anymore. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > and the GOP has the White House and both chambers of Congress, they might just repeal it to send a message. And we’re the ones imagining things? 😃 You might have forgotten that we already had that election, that Obamacare was the primary issue, and, if not for gerrymandering, the Dems would have a clean sweep. > [@](#): > > It’s not like the Democrats will see 60 Senate seats for a long time But the Republicans will, huh? 😃 > [@](#): > > Democrats NEED ACA to be as invincible as SS and Medicare. Once they see that their entitlements can indeed by repealed, it will be a long time before they are willing to make short term political sacrifices to get more entitlements passed. Go ahead and tell us how well your party’s efforts to restrict SS eligibility and voucherize Medicare have been received, please. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2314 "2014-01-20T18:32:54Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Go ahead and tell us how well your party’s efforts to restrict SS eligibility and voucherize Medicare have been received, please. Not to mention privatizing Social Security, back when the Last Republican President Who Shall Not Be Named tried it. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2315 "2014-01-20T19:46:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It was made in their image in the first place, remember? That was a nice talking point, but not really true. The Republican version did have exchanges and a mandate, but it did not have all those insurance mandates which push the price up, nor did it make the young subsidize the old. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2316 "2014-01-20T19:47:50Z")
And my comparison to SS and Medicare was to point out that ACA is NOT those programs and as of this moment, is eminently repealable. If it’s still underwater in the polls in 2017, it will be repealed. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2317 "2014-01-20T19:51:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That was a nice talking point, but not really true. The Republican version did have exchanges and a mandate, but it did not have all those insurance mandates which push the price up, nor did it make the young subsidize the old. [Read it sometime.](http://www.heritage.org/research/lecture/assuring-affordable-health-care-for-all-americans)[Stuart Butler, its author, explains:](http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/10/20/how-a-conservative-think-tank-invented-the-individual-mandate/) > [@](#): > > We would include a mandate in our proposal–not a mandate on employers, but a mandate on heads of households–to obtain at least a basic package of health insurance for themselves and their families. That would have to include, by federal law, a catastrophic provision in the form of a stop loss for a family’s total health outlays. It would have to include all members of the family, and it might also include certain very specific services, such as preventive care, well baby visits, and other items. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2318 "2014-01-20T19:54:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And my comparison to SS and Medicare was to point out that ACA is NOT those programs and as of this moment, is eminently repealable. If it’s still underwater in the polls in 2017, it will be repealed. So says the one that said that single payer would not be seen in our lifetimes if ACA survives. States already have the option to go that way under the ACA and we are seeing it in Vermont, I will not be surprised to see more go that way in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2319 "2014-01-20T19:54:07Z")
It “might”, and it’s a short list. Republicans would never impose mandates that would increase the cost of insurance significantly. Republicans were campaigning against unreasonable insurance mandates in the states for many years before ACA was even being debated. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2320 "2014-01-20T19:55:08Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > So says the one that said that single payer would not be seen in our lifetimes if ACA survives. States already have the option to go that way under the ACA and we are seeing it in Vermont, I will not be surprised to see more go that way in the near future. States are free to do whatever they want. I’m interested in seeing how the unions and the elderly react to being put in the same system as everyone else. Oh wait, they’ll be exempt, won’t they? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=115) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=117)