# Will The Republicans ever figure out why they lost? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224 "2012-12-26T21:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 125
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2481 "2014-01-25T16:49:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Hardly. It demonstrates extreme stupidity. Thank you, my dear clueless boy. Your responses never disappoint. Here’s another completely true line: As a matter of principle, Republicans trust government. More than that; Republicans love government. Republicans love government for many reasons, not least of which is that is provides them a tool to oppress and intrude into the lives of the Other that they hate and fear so strongly. But the primary reason Republicans love government is that they are the party of Business. Business loves, it requires, government to create the orderly climate and future stability that it needs to thrive and survive. Business has been burned over and over by the mirage of quick profits in other countries that it attempts to exploit only to find that they are kicked out or nationalized or otherwise disrupted. Order is a core philosophy of modern Capitalism. More pragmatically, Business uses its power in governments to create laws that give them a host of special privileges, from tax relief to lowered regulations to repression of labor. One couldn’t ask for a better demonstration of this truth than the current hysteria among the establishment Republicans when faced with the prospect of Republicans gaining votes but ones who care more about social issues and religion and guns than Business. You’ll note that this brand of Republicans equally requires government to force its repugnant bigotry onto Others who don’t similarly believe. All that says is that Republicans love, love, loooovvvveeee government. And so they obviously don’t trust Democrats to use government properly. Democrats have - very occasional, passing, inchoate - notions of using government to improve the lot of peoples’ lives. That simply won’t do, my dear. The servants might get ideas, donchaknow. Why did I proclaim Mitt Romney the nominee in mid-2011? Because the Republicans are the party of Business and Business trusts government. That will still be true in 2016. I don’t even have to bet money on it. Lots of Republicans will be doing that for me. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2482 "2014-01-25T17:29:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You’re being unfair to the GOP on the NSA. There is a genuine divide, between the more libertarian faction of the party and the defense hawks. That’s true. You spoiled our fun. The libertarians kept their mouths shut while Bush was ravaging the countryside though. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2483 "2014-01-25T17:31:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > What liberals should be asking themselves is why no matter how many elections they win, they never seem to be able to get much done other than to preserve the New Deal? Obamacare. Far more than preserving the New Deal; more like expanding it (a little). What liberals need to ask themselves is why did they pass it without a single Republican vote, and then promptly lose their House majority, and was it worth it. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2484 "2014-01-25T17:35:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Democrats should not support anything they wouldn’t trust the other party to use. Well, if taken to its logical extreme, that would mean they support no government at all. Trusting government, but only when you’re in charge of it, is a dilemma. But I do agree when it comes to process, and precedent. For instance, liberals who gave courts so much power during the Warren years are now finding that conservative courts aren’t as fun. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2485 "2014-01-25T18:21:09Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > What liberals need to ask themselves is why did they pass it without a single Republican vote No Republican votes were ever going to be available for anything the Democrats were proposing, as you know. Unless you can tell us what the Republican counterproposals even were, other than to fuck off. > [@](#): > > and then promptly lose their House majority No need to ask ourselves or anyone else. That was due to gerrymandering. Perhaps you weren’t aware that there were _substantially more_ total votes for Dem candidates than Republicans, in addition to our increasing our Senate representation despite having far more seats to defend, and the President having won as easily as any can. That’s a clean sweep, if you’re keeping count. > [@](#): > > and was it worth it. Why wouldn’t it be? This was \*the \*issue, and we won, for as many generations to come as can be foreseen. That’s like asking if the New Deal was worth the losses in 1948. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2486 "2014-01-25T18:54:05Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > But I do agree when it comes to process, and precedent. For instance, liberals who gave courts so much power during the Warren years are now finding that conservative courts aren’t as fun. And how exactly did “liberals” _give_ the courts so much power? There’s a lot of case assumptions, faulty reasoning, and plain myth making in that one sentence. > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > What liberals need to ask themselves is why did they pass it without a single Republican vote Haven’t you noticed that the Republicans have a strategy of not letting Obama pass anything? What do you propose Democrats do in the face of this? Wrong their hands at how extremist they are being? In the face of Republican viciousness, the Democrats set aside their own plans for health care reform and adopted a _Republican_ plan, which the Republicans then then voted against to a man. And this shows that _Democrats_ are doing something wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2487 "2014-01-25T19:40:02Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > In the face of Republican viciousness, the Democrats set aside their own plans for health care reform and adopted a _Republican_ plan, which the Republicans then then voted against to a man. And this shows that _Democrats_ are doing something wrong? Yes, paying too much attention to the Republicans. Or at least the RWNJs. The same thing Boehner is doing now in the House. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2488 "2014-01-25T21:30:43Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > In the face of Republican viciousness, the Democrats set aside their own plans for health care reform and adopted a _Republican_ plan, which the Republicans then then voted against to a man. And this shows that _Democrats_ are doing something wrong? Only to sane people. Progressives, for example. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2489 "2014-01-26T03:41:47Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Obamacare. Far more than preserving the New Deal; more like expanding it (a little). > > What liberals need to ask themselves is why did they pass it without a single Republican vote, and then promptly lose their House majority, and was it worth it. Another way to look at it is, “We passed the Republican health care plan and then the Republicans won the House!” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2490 "2014-01-26T03:44:23Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Well, if taken to its logical extreme, that would mean they support no government at all. > > Trusting government, but only when you’re in charge of it, is a dilemma. > > But I do agree when it comes to process, and precedent. For instance, liberals who gave courts so much power during the Warren years are now finding that conservative courts aren’t as fun. I think this is a type of issue that really only applies to surveillance-type stuff. Democrats might not like Republicans in charge of the welfare state, but it still functions. REpublicans might not prefer Democrats in charge of the Pentagon, but that still works fine too. The NSA is a different situation, because eventually some President is doing to decide to use it for political agendas, or be well-meaning but think, “Hey wouldn’t it be great to use NSA to reduce crime?” Think Bloomberg wouldn’t take that opportunity if he thought he could get away with it? Heck, he’d probably use NSA to monitor trans fats. ---
**Author:** ![twhitt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@twhitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twhitt)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2491 "2014-01-26T07:07:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I think this is a type of issue that really only applies to surveillance-type stuff. Democrats might not like Republicans in charge of the welfare state, but it still functions. REpublicans might not prefer Democrats in charge of the Pentagon, but that still works fine too. > > The NSA is a different situation, because eventually some President is doing to decide to use it for political agendas, or be well-meaning but think, “Hey wouldn’t it be great to use NSA to reduce crime?” Think Bloomberg wouldn’t take that opportunity if he thought he could get away with it? Heck, he’d probably use NSA to monitor trans fats. And as a member of what party did Bloomberg run and win the office of Mayor, again? I’ll accept either correct answer. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2492 "2014-01-26T14:39:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Another way to look at it is, “We passed the Republican health care plan and then the Republicans won the House!” Good luck with that. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2493 "2014-01-26T16:29:05Z")
I think you missed the point. the only thing the Democrats accomplished in the last 50 years cost them the House and could well cost them the senate as well. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2494 "2014-01-26T16:31:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > the only thing the Democrats accomplished in the last 50 years cost them the House and could well cost them the senate as well. There are three statements here, and they’re all incorrect. The trend continues. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2495 "2014-01-26T16:41:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There are three statements here, and they’re all incorrect. The trend continues. Trend? It’s a law of nature at this point. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2496 "2014-01-26T18:17:28Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > No Republican votes were ever going to be available for anything the Democrats were proposing, as you know. Unless you can tell us what the Republican counterproposals even were, other than to fuck off. Yes, that’s my point. > [@](#): > > No need to ask ourselves or anyone else. That was due to gerrymandering. Uh, no. The House seats were the same as those in the past decade, in which Dems held control of the House. They weren’t redistricted until 2012, following the 2010 census. There’s no way in hell you can blame that election on gerrymandering. > [@](#): > > Perhaps you weren’t aware that there were _substantially more_ total votes for Dem candidates than Republicans, I was aware of that. Yet somehow the Dems had control of the House with the same district lines from the previous census, in 2000, until then. > [@](#): > > Why wouldn’t it be? This was \*the \*issue, and we won, for as many generations to come as can be foreseen. That’s like asking if the New Deal was worth the losses in 1948. That’s my point - was it “THE issue?” Was it worth giving up the power to affect every other issue out there? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2497 "2014-01-26T18:19:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Another way to look at it is, “We passed the Republican health care plan and then the Republicans won the House!” LOL! And then the Republicans tried their damnedest to kill their own plan, and may suffer losses for that. Strange how things work out when one side can’t stand to just compromise and govern. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2498 "2014-01-26T18:23:44Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And how exactly did “liberals” _give_ the courts so much power? There’s a lot of case assumptions, faulty reasoning, and plain myth making in that one sentence. Not really. I’m just thinking of the Warren court and judicial activism. I’m a liberal myself, though judicially I’m a conservative (which is an entirely different thing as a political conservative). > [@](#): > > Haven’t you noticed that the Republicans have a strategy of not letting Obama pass anything? What do you propose Democrats do in the face of this? They should have considered not passing anything at all so that they didn’t die on the sword of one issue. Instead, they gave up their House majority for one issue by passing a mediocre law that was sure to be under constant attack from the new GOP majority anyway. All truly good and lasting laws and programs, at least since after the New Deal, have been created and sustained by enjoying support from both parties. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2499 "2014-01-26T18:25:55Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > The House seats were the same as those in the past decade, in which Dems held control of the House. They weren’t redistricted until 2012, following the 2010 census. There’s no way in hell you can blame that election on gerrymandering. > > … > > I was aware of that. Yet somehow the Dems had control of the House with the same district lines from the previous census, in 2000, until then. Republicans in state legislatures have been gradually tightening the gerrymandering since the mid-1990s. It was the 2008 election that was a fluke, because the Republicans had screwed themselves so badly in the previous year and Obama was riding a first-time high that wasn’t realistic to maintain. The gerrymandering practically guaranteed that in 2010, after the Obama high of 2008 had died down and the end of the Bush administration was a memory, the Republicans would re-take the house. And they’ve held it ever since, tightening the gerrymandering each chance they get. And don’t forget in Texas (and some other states too, I think), the Republicans used mid-cycle redistricting to flip the delegation from majority Democratic to overwhelmingly Republican. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2500 "2014-01-26T19:03:33Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Republicans in state legislatures have been gradually tightening the gerrymandering since the mid-1990s. No, not “gradually.” Except for rare exceptions, redistricting only happens after the census every ten years. > [@](#): > > It was the 2008 election that was a fluke, because the Republicans had screwed themselves so badly in the previous year and Obama was riding a first-time high that wasn’t realistic to maintain. So were the 2002, 2004, 2006 elections also a fluke? The Dems won a House majority in those too. > [@](#): > > The gerrymandering practically guaranteed that in 2010, after the Obama high of 2008 had died down and the end of the Bush administration was a memory, the Republicans would re-take the house. And they’ve held it ever since, tightening the gerrymandering each chance they get. But they only get that chance every ten years, after the census. There was no redistricting after the 2008 election. All the districts where the same as when Dems won a majority. > [@](#): > > And don’t forget in Texas (and some other states too, I think), the Republicans used mid-cycle redistricting to flip the delegation from majority Democratic to overwhelmingly Republican. Yes, Texas redistricted mid-cycle. But Texas did not turn the House Republican by itself in 2010. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=124) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=126)