# Will The Republicans ever figure out why they lost? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224 "2012-12-26T21:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 129
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2561 "2014-01-27T17:23:26Z")
Thanks, I thought it might be somewhere in that scene but it’s been too long for me to remember. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2562 "2014-01-27T17:41:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > [Four out of five Americans don't trust GOP](http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/four-out-five-americans-dont-trust-gop) > > **Four Out of Five Americans Don’t Trust the GOP** > > This, too, is excellent news for the Republican Party! I don’t know why that would be so, but I await friend **adaher’s** explanation as to why that is the case. And then we can ask the other four. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Greenjeans](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.greenjeans/32/551_2.png) [@Mr.Greenjeans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Greenjeans)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2563 "2014-01-27T18:00:51Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Hedley Lamarr: Qualifications? > > Applicant: Rape, murder, arson, and rape. > > Hedley Lamarr: You said rape twice. > > Applicant: I like rape. During the elections in 2012, I speculated that this was how Republicans picked their candidates. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2564 "2014-01-28T02:47:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, all those elections where you guys lost, you didn’t _really_ lose. And the ones you guys did win, you really _did_ win. OK. Got it. Is this the one where America is actually a center-right country? > > Will there be unicorns? I like my fairy tales to have unicorns. Well, they’re kindasorta unicorns; one horn, but it’s a bit off-center, to the right. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2565 "2014-01-28T06:30:54Z")
Explain to me then why under Obama taxes on everyone making under $400,000 has gone down. Even further than under Bush. If the Democrats are the tax cutting party too, then I think it’s pretty clear we’re a center-right nation. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2566 "2014-01-28T06:41:07Z")
Wow. If you’re going to make that much stew from one oyster, that would make Jesus’ party trick with the bread and the fish look Amateur Hour. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2567 "2014-01-28T06:47:36Z")
You can get flashbacks from Dr Pepper? Far out. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2568 "2014-01-28T09:28:22Z")
There’s a lot more oysters where that came from. That one just happens to be the most significant. Democrats have sworn off ever raising significantly more revenue again. That’s a HUGE win for conservatism that makes the need to win elections almost unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2569 "2014-01-28T10:16:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There’s a lot more oysters where that came from. That one just happens to be the most significant. Democrats have sworn off ever raising significantly more revenue again. That’s a HUGE win for conservatism that makes the need to win elections almost unnecessary. Good for you for concluding that Republicans shouldn’t win any more elections. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2570 "2014-01-28T10:39:34Z")
Obviously, it would be good to win some, but I’m just making the point that there is more to controlling the agenda than winning elections. Politics isn’t sports. Changing public opinion is more important than winning elections. A public that is conservative yet hates Republicans still means Democrats can’t do much. Personally, I like that better than the situation in the 50s and 60s, where the public didn’t hate Republicans but let Democrats tax and spend like crazy. Tax and spend is now dead. That’s a good thing that no election will change. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2571 "2014-01-28T10:44:18Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Obviously, it would be good to win some, but I’m just making the point that there is more to controlling the agenda than winning elections. Politics isn’t sports. Changing public opinion is more important than winning elections. A public that is conservative yet hates Republicans still means Democrats can’t do much. Personally, I like that better than the situation in the 50s and 60s, where the public didn’t hate Republicans but let Democrats tax and spend like crazy. > > Tax and spend is now dead. That’s a good thing that no election will change. Boy I wish I had your active imagination! It’s like you’ve created a whole parallel fantasy universe. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2572 "2014-01-28T11:02:09Z")
Nice(being sarcastic) rebuttal, and this time I’m going to call you on it. If Democrats have sworn off raising anyone but a tiny minority’s taxes, how will they ever do anything big again? Or are you telling me they are lying? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2573 "2014-01-28T11:17:21Z")
I don’t know why but I’m going to give a serious answer: the GOP have successfully moved the [Overton window](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window) to the right on taxes. Usually by lying about them, to be sure, but their message has stuck. The thing about the Overton window, however - it moves both ways. So words like “ever” are exceedingly naive when discussing politics. Ten years ago SSM was dead, finito, never going to be accepted, doomed by an ongoing series of state constitution amendments to ban it. Now - things are different. Society changes in unexpected ways. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2574 "2014-01-28T12:24:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Nice(being sarcastic) rebuttal, and this time I’m going to call you on it. > > If Democrats have sworn off raising anyone but a tiny minority’s taxes, how will they ever do anything big again? > > Or are you telling me they are lying? I’m telling you that you’re wrong, and almost everything you say about American politics and government is incorrect. You seem to have two sources – right wing talking points, and a bizarre fantasy construct of a world. Neither are good sources. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2575 "2014-01-28T13:19:30Z")
The question in the OP maybe shouldn’t be “Will the Republicans ever figure out why they lost?”, but should be “Will the Republicans ever figure out that they lost?” ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2576 "2014-01-28T13:25:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Tax and spend is now dead. That’s a good thing that no election will change. Now that we can stop electing Republicans, we can do away with borrow and spend, which is the real driver of deficits. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2577 "2014-01-28T13:36:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m telling you that you’re wrong, and almost everything you say about American politics and government is incorrect. You seem to have two sources – right wing talking points, and a bizarre fantasy construct of a world. Neither are good sources. Given that most right-wing talking points ARE bizarre fantasy constructs, that all kind of collapses the waveform into one source, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2578 "2014-01-28T13:41:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Obviously, it would be good to win some, but I’m just making the point that there is more to controlling the agenda than winning elections. Politics isn’t sports. Changing public opinion is more important than winning elections. A public that is conservative yet hates Republicans still means Democrats can’t do much. Personally, I like that better than the situation in the 50s and 60s, where the public didn’t hate Republicans but let Democrats tax and spend like crazy. > > Tax and spend is now dead. That’s a good thing that no election will change. What makes you think the public is conservative? Social issues seem to be the opposite- most Americans favor reasonable gun controls, access to abortion and contraception, and marriage equality. With regards to fiscal matters, which party was it that spent massively on two unnecessary wars and put it on the credit card? Which one created a new Medicare benefit and refused to pay for it? Hint- the initial comes after Q and before S. You want a balanced budget- don’t look to Republicans for salvation. The single biggest driver of the deficit continues to be the Bush tax cuts. It’s only a narrow segment of the population who is dead set against taxes, and much of that opposition will disappear the next time there is a white president. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2579 "2014-01-28T13:41:42Z")
Long and short of it: Democrats are still willing to practice politics, compromise, negotiation, etc., and the Republicans, in general, are not. They stick to their guns, refuse to make any concessions, etc. etc., and, so, manage to screw up the country. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2580 "2014-01-28T13:42:21Z")
I am still trying to digest this from **adaher** : “Politics isn’t sports.” Is it just me or is this person changing his message slowly but surely over the course of time? He even complemented the Democratic Party yesterday. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=128) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=130)