# Will The Republicans ever figure out why they lost? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224 "2012-12-26T21:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 133
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2641 "2014-02-02T20:21:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You just need to believe in a party so extreme that all the members are far right. Although you sorta have to ignore reality to get there. Or else, wait. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2642 "2014-02-02T20:23:00Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Mitt Romney won because the conservative vote was split among about ten different candidates. If the tea party were to coalesce behind a single candidate like Cruz instead of doing the crazy carousel like the last time they would Cruz (heh) to victory. Not in the general election, they wouldn’t. We will never live to see an America where a TP purist is acceptable to the majority. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2643 "2014-02-02T20:25:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s a myth – Reagan was far less conservative than Romney (at least in his latest guise), and on many issues less conservative than W. The party has moved to the right – in today’s GOP, Reagan would be a ‘liberal’ Republican. Or, more likely, a DLC Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2014, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2644 "2014-02-02T21:20:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Not in the general election, they wouldn’t. We will never live to see an America where a TP purist is acceptable to the majority. Just the primaries, that TP candidate would lose in a landslide against absolutely anyone. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2014, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2645 "2014-02-02T22:53:13Z")
Which is why that TP candidate has never been nominated. And Romney to the right of Reagan? On what issues? Citing taxes is all well and good if you forget that Reagan only raised taxes because he cut them so much and revenues did not increase as much as anticipated. The 1982 tax increases undid only one third of the tax cuts. Then came tax reform, which lowered rates further. I can’t think of any other issue on which Mitt Romney was plausibly more conservative than Ronald Reagan. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2646 "2014-02-02T22:57:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I can’t think of any other issue on which Mitt Romney was plausibly more conservative than Ronald Reagan. Immigration. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2014, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2647 "2014-02-02T23:01:43Z")
Reagan did an amnesty because it was supposed to solve the problem and make future illegal immigration preventable through better enforcement. Learning from a failed policy does not make you more radical. Reagan would not favor an amnesty today, because the last one didn’t fulfill its promise. Besides, given the way Democrats talk about immigration enforcement, they are all more right-wing than Ronald Reagan on the issue. Or, more likely they recognize the political climate won’t allow for another bait and switch. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2014, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2648 "2014-02-02T23:07:37Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Learning from a failed policy does not make you more radical. Reagan would not favor an amnesty today, because the last one didn’t fulfill its promise. Considering your extremely poor record at analyzing the minds of people who are live, I’m skeptical that your opinion of Reagan’s views are any more accurate than a coin flip. > [@](#): > > Besides, given the way Democrats talk about immigration enforcement, they are all more right-wing than Ronald Reagan on the issue. This is not helping your argument. Reagan is more ‘liberal’ than most of the GOP now on the issues, but more on tone – he did not demonize his opposition, and would have treated Obama with friendliness and decency. That alone is enough to make him a ‘RINO’, according to the tone of much of the GOP base. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2649 "2014-02-02T23:38:30Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Steady up, there, hoss. A girlish giggle, a swan’s neck and a mind like a steel trap. And you got? The Women of Fox News. Quantity has a quality all its own. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2650 "2014-02-02T23:44:06Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Which is why that TP candidate has never been nominated. So why would you **want** one to be nominated, knowing he can’t win? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2651 "2014-02-03T05:45:53Z")
Because as I said before, winning elections isn’t everything. Moving the conversation to the right over time is far more important. If the Obama is indeed an “Eisenhower Republican”, then doesn’t that mean that the Republicans always win? That all elections are essentially Eisenhower vs. someone to the right of Barry Goldwater? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2652 "2014-02-03T06:27:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The Women of Fox News. Quantity has a quality all its own. The wind whistles freely through the canyons of her mind and playfully bats tumbleweeds across the wilderness of her ignorance. (I’m glsd I didn’t say “bewilderness of her ignorance”. I was tempted, but that would be wrong.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2653 "2014-02-03T07:00:49Z")
Does the Tea Party actually exist as a discrete entity? Does it reflect the essential quality of being a thing? What is the official Tea Party platform, where can I get a copy? Is the Tea Party Express the governing and organizing body, as would be implied by using their name as the backdrop for the “official” Tea Party response to the SOTU. Where’s all those rallies? Used to be a lot of them, where’s the silly looking guy in the Johnny Tremaine getup? Is the Tea Party gonna vote, pick their nominee? A convention, maybe? Maybe send out ballots to all the Tea Party members. If there’s a list. With names and addresses. Scrappy populist outfit like the Tea Party thrives on the small donations of average patriotic Americans, Joe Sixshooter. Five bucks here and there, pledge week. So where do these donations get sent? Which bank processes the checks, what accounting firm is responsible? You wouldn’t have a problem figuring where to send a donation to the Democratic Party, or the Republican Party, or even the Libertarian Party. Where do you send a donation to the Tea Party? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2654 "2014-02-03T07:10:51Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Does the Tea Party actually exist as a discrete entity? Does it reflect the essential quality of being a thing? What is the official Tea Party platform, where can I get a copy? Is the Tea Party Express the governing and organizing body, as would be implied by using their name as the backdrop for the “official” Tea Party response to the SOTU. If government need not go about the mundane, passé business of governing, what makes you think a party must undertake such irrelevancies as having a platform or nominating candidates? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2655 "2014-02-03T15:38:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Does the Tea Party actually exist as a discrete entity? [Thats’ a bit complicated.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Tea_party_movement) > [@](#): > > **Organization** > > The origins of these teabaggings depends on who you ask. Right wingers insist that this movement is a totally organic, grassroots effort that sprang up overnight. Liberals Everyone else realizes this is a media stunt astroturfed by the likes of Newt Gingrich, Dick Armey, Koch Industries, Inc.,[6] CNBC, and Fox News.[7] These demonstrations took place everywhere from Kentucky to California, but were thwarted in Washington, D.C. because they didn’t have a permit to dump a million tea bags into the sea[8] (way to organize, guys!). > > The first use of the Tea Party iconography started in 2007 during Ron Paul’s presidential campaign. However, the Tea Parties were limited to Paul die-hards and never gained mainstream traction until Santelli dredged the idea back up on CNBC in 2009. It didn’t take long for the astroturf machine to move in after that. > > More than $850,000 of the money the supposedly grassroots political action committee collected went to the firm of GOP political operatives who ran it.[9] > > More simply put, the “organization” consists of some printed paper yanking on a short string, to which is attached a tissue paper bag full of jumbled shredded leaves, which are steeped by soaking them in boiling water. > > **Factions** > > By the end of 2009, various groups had formed claiming to be the leaders of the tea-party movement, including the **Tea Party Patriots** and the **Tea Party Nation.** [10][11] On February 4-6 , 2010 the Tea Party Nation hosted the first ever national convention in Nashville, Tennessee with guest speaker Sarah Palin.[12] The convention was attacked by teabaggers for being distant from the supposedly grassroots movement, with tickets costing $549.[13] > > The largest tea party organizations by size are:[14] > > Tea Party Patriots > ResistNet > Tea Party Nation > FreedomWorks Tea Party > 1776 Tea Party[15] > > **Ensuring Liberty Corporation** > > At the First Teabagging Convention, Mark Scoda, a Memphis businessman, announced the creation of Ensuring Liberty Corporation, a Memphis based company with a political action group that would fund “Tea Party candidates” - that is, politicians supportive of the tea party movement which he described as: “Less government, fiscal responsibility, lower taxes, states rights, and national security.” It will be accepting corporate donations.[16] > > **Astroturf organisation** > > Despite claims that it is a “grassroots” organisation, the Tea Party has merely become another patsy for the US’s health care insurance companies to fight healthcare reform. The “Tea Party Caucus” received donations of $2.7 million from the health care sector, which also contributed towards a $25 million “war chest” to be used by the Tea Party to fight the elections.[17][18] > > One insurer has gone so far as to urge employees to attend anti-healthcare Tea Party rallies.[19][20] > > The two main 'Bagger astroturf groups are FreedomWorks headed by Dick Armey and Americans for Prosperity. Both were spun off from the Koch-bankrolled Citizens for a Sound Economy. The Kochs denied any connection to the Tea Parties. A few months after that statement, a video leaked of Teabag state chapter leaders reporting directly to David Koch himself at the Americans for Prosperity mothership.[21] (But they’re grassroots, honest!) > > Sadly, most Tea Party members are too full of righteous indignation and are too stupid to realise they are merely pawns in a gambit by their corporate backers to ensure they retain their profits… at the cost of the very people who are cheering them on. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2656 "2014-02-03T15:46:51Z")
The Tea Party is called a “party” because it’s named after the Boston Tea Party, not because it’s a political party. It’s not. It’s a loosely organized movement. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2657 "2014-02-03T16:14:53Z")
… with nearly all of its alleged leaders on the Fox News payroll. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2658 "2014-02-03T16:33:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Because as I said before, winning elections isn’t everything. Moving the conversation to the right over time is far more important. > > If the Obama is indeed an “Eisenhower Republican”, then doesn’t that mean that the Republicans always win? That all elections are essentially Eisenhower vs. someone to the right of Barry Goldwater? In your world, maybe that’s true. I’ve never been there and I don’t particularly much like the glimpses you’ve given of it. In my world, every actual issue has moved leftward since Eisenhower. Adlai Stevenson didn’t envision a social universe of such staggering liberality; the Great Society added new social programs to the New Deal; the overwhelming and unthinking fealty given to the military has been mostly shattered; Keynesian thinking now rules mainstream economics. In short, except for the anchors that the Neanderthal conservative keep throwing at decent people, the center of American thought is so much farther left than even Socialists believed could happen in the 1930s that the 50s center is not even visible in the rear-view mirror. And nothing - nothing whatsoever - will be moving it an inch backward in any foreseeable future. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2659 "2014-02-03T16:40:14Z")
I’m a liberal too, but I believe in facing reality… > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > the Great Society added new social programs to the New Deal; Which are now struggling to survive. > [@](#): > > the overwhelming and unthinking fealty given to the military has been mostly shattered; True, though the military and spy agencies are getting away with all kinds of fun new things. > [@](#): > > Keynesian thinking now rules mainstream economics. Well, not like it used to. > [@](#): > > And nothing - nothing whatsoever - will be moving it an inch backward in any foreseeable future. Don’t delude yourself. It doesn’t help. Oh, and how’s abortion doing lately? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/2660 "2014-02-03T16:48:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Because as I said before, winning elections isn’t everything. Moving the conversation to the right over time is far more important. Ah, yes. Shifting the [Overton Window.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window) But, when Nader ran in 2000, did that succeed in shifting the Overton Window to the left any? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=132)