# Will The Republicans ever figure out why they lost? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224 "2012-12-26T21:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/281 "2012-12-29T06:05:04Z")
So white trash is going to save America. Good thing I play the banjo. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/282 "2012-12-29T06:51:42Z")
> [@Docta\_G](#): > > So white trash is going to save America. Good thing I play the banjo. Bada-banga-banga-banga-RING. Bada-ba-BING-a And now yew ken squeal lak a pig! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/283 "2012-12-29T12:53:09Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Institute laws that would declare that CEO pay can only be a fixed multiple of the minimum wage. > > I can see the conservative talking heads now bloviating about the URGENT need to raise the minimum wage! I don’t disagree in principle, but CEOs will find ways to get around it (to live in [palaces of gold](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpWluQXKTZk)). They’d probably take their earnings in undervalued IRAs or other rapidly appreciating investments. The paychecks of the proles would naturally circulate upwards in the economy to those that do not need to spend the majority of their money on amenities. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/284 "2012-12-29T14:39:25Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > To some degree, I agree with both these posts. I was just trying to point out the odd blend of hypocrisy, dishonesty, or dissonance in how the Tea Party presents itself.[sup]\*[/sup] They say they want lower taxes, have been getting lower taxes for years, were indifferent to the primary candidate who promised them lower taxes, and look poised to repeat that pattern indefinitely. But that’s a rather different situation than **Der Trihs** described, of factions splintering because they’ve only been paid lip service for years. You can’t pander to someone if you don’t know what they want. And you _really_ can’t pander to someone if even they don’t know what they want. > > - It is, perhaps, not fair to expect the Tea Party to present a single, unified, coherent voice to the public. It is not a monolithic group. What appears to be their confusion may just be different people speaking at different times and trying to rally the group behind them. It’s hardly unique to them. In four years the Reform Party went from Ross Perot to Pat Buchanan. One reason the TP is hard to identify is that their ideas of tax “policy” make no sense-- as a collective policy, it doesn’t exist because each TP member is offended by the idea of government sticking its greedy fingers into his or her pockets, but makes special exception for those taxes that he or she finds acceptable. Since this is literally on a person-by-person basis, and since this infuriating situation of having one’s pockets picked by a thieving faceless gummint is their prime motivation, every TP member is literally a member of a party of one, meaning that (almost) all of them are going to be full of vitriol and mistrust for (almost) every other one of them. You will find small pockets that have exactly aligned interests, of course, so that these pockets rather than literally individuals will be opposed to each other, but they will be fighting internally for the most part, and often contrary to their own self-interests. It is mostly the TPers in Congress who are pushing us over the fiscal cliff right now, not realizing or understanding that the economy depends on Wall Street’s assurance of economic stability. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/285 "2012-12-29T16:25:40Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > I don’t disagree in principle, but CEOs will find ways to get around it (to live in [palaces of gold](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpWluQXKTZk)). They’d probably take their earnings in undervalued IRAs or other rapidly appreciating investments. The paychecks of the proles would naturally circulate upwards in the economy to those that do not need to spend the majority of their money on amenities. This already happened. It led to the rise of compensating CEOs with cheap stock options that could be redeemed for huge gains if the stock prices went up. Good in theory, but in practice this just exacerbated the trend toward making all decisions short-term to affect an immediate rise in the stock rather than for the long-term good of the company. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/286 "2012-12-31T05:23:07Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > This already happened. It led to the rise of compensating CEOs with cheap stock options that could be redeemed for huge gains if the stock prices went up. Good in theory, but in practice this just exacerbated the trend toward making all decisions short-term to affect an immediate rise in the stock rather than for the long-term good of the company. Hmm . . . So, can you think of any (non-revolutionary) measure to make the CEOs less obscenely-and-irresponsibly wealthy, that those Harvard MBAs and all their little imps and demons and accountants **couldn’t** outwit? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/287 "2012-12-31T13:22:10Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Hmm . . . So, can you think of any (non-revolutionary) measure to make the CEOs less obscenely-and-irresponsibly wealthy, that those Harvard MBAs and all their little imps and demons and accountants **couldn’t** outwit? Dude, if you have a huge group of highly motivated experts who spend all day long thinking about nothing but ways to increase the money that they’ll get, do you think any force on earth can stop them? Chartered Accountant Man wasn’t even effective on Monty Python. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/288 "2012-12-31T13:30:21Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Dude, if you have a huge group of highly motivated experts who spend all day long thinking about nothing but ways to increase the money that they’ll get, do you think any force on earth can stop them? Considering that executives in other countries tend to have far lower salaries than in the US, yes. This isn’t some inevitable social phenomenon; this is an _American_ problem. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/289 "2012-12-31T14:32:36Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Considering that executives in other countries tend to have far lower salaries than in the US, yes. This isn’t some inevitable social phenomenon; this is an _American_ problem. I agree. The consequence is that an American solution will have to be found. It’s like gun control. There may be an answer, but it will take a total reversal of societal attitudes over a generation to achieve. You can’t simply legislate one. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2013, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/290 "2013-01-01T04:05:45Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Dude, if you have a huge group of highly motivated experts who spend all day long thinking about nothing but ways to increase the money that they’ll get, do you think any force on earth can stop them? Chartered Accountant Man wasn’t even effective on Monty Python. ☹ OK, revolution it is, then. _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/291 "2013-06-07T03:37:31Z")
Romney Wishes Hurricane Sandy Hadn’t Happened Because It Hurt His Chances > **[Romney Wishes Hurricane Sandy Hadn't Happened Because It Hurt His Chances](https://news.yahoo.com/romney-wishes-hurricane-sandy-hadnt-happened-because-hurt-210811148.html)** > > Mitt Romney has had seven months to think about why he lost the 2012 election, and now that he's coming out of his post-campaign dark period, you'd think he'd know exactly how to answer reporters' questions about what happened. But in a new interview... ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/292 "2013-06-08T07:55:54Z")
On the list of things that did damage to Romney, I’d put Sandy somewhere around #10. #1 was Todd Akin. You can talk about Hispanics, youth, whatever, but the big gap that opened up was the gender gap. Republicans need to figure out how to consolidate the gains they’ve made with men while closing the gap with women. Especially professional women, a group Republicans should be winning by virtue of income. There’s just no excuse for Republicans to not clean up among wealthy voters the way Democrats do among poor voters. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/293 "2013-06-08T08:06:02Z")
With the positions Republicans have on Abortion, rape and gender equality in general, the gender gap \*\*will \*\*remain. And issues like the pea brained opposition to controlling global warming gas emissions will lead to hefty prices to pay for not doing anything early. That alone will tell many wealthy Americans to stop supporting the blind that want to continue to lead. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/294 "2013-06-08T08:26:20Z")
Well, environmentalism is primarily the purview of well off white liberals. as the Democratic Party becomes more minority, environmentalism will fall further and further down the priority list. Which is an opportunity for Republicans, who do actually have some ideas on climate change, such as a revenue neutral carbon tax. The GOP needs about 3-5% of the vote to win Presidential elections. IT doesn’t matter which voters they get. If they can run up bigger margins among rich white people, that works just as well as losing by less with Hispanic voters. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/295 "2013-06-08T08:38:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well, environmentalism is primarily the purview of well off white liberals. as the Democratic Party becomes more minority, environmentalism will fall further and further down the priority list. Which is an opportunity for Republicans, who do actually have some ideas on climate change, such as a revenue neutral carbon tax. As the “Democratic party becomes more minority” Well, I would like a Pony too, as there is some sources talking about the revenue neutral carbon tax I have noticed that the conservatives that propose it now are people outside the current Republicans in power, do you have any measures coming with that tax from the Republican house? > [@adaher](#): > > The GOP needs about 3-5% of the vote to win Presidential elections. IT doesn’t matter which voters they get. If they can run up bigger margins among rich white people, that works just as well as losing by less with Hispanic voters. As mythical as a Pony, the current crop of Republicans will not propose a carbon tax, they are only constantly disparaging the science and voting against any regulations, so I would have to say that reality is not their friend either, once the very likely changes caused by the increase in CO2 becomes more noticeable the irresponsibility of the Republicanism will become more clear to the wealthy in America. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/296 "2013-06-08T09:01:04Z")
That’s political posturing. Their base does not want anything done on climate change. The calculus changes when environmentalists disgruntled that Democrats aren’t paying enough attention to their issue start to look elsewhere. The Democratic base is made up of a lot of groups with competing and often opposing agendas. From time to time, it will be possible to pick up some voters that way. A good example right now is liberals concerned with civil liberties. Hand the reigns over more to the libertarian side of the GOP and a lot of those types will be inclined to support us. Obama is killing the party’s brand right now on surveillance issues and the GOP should try to benefit from that. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/297 "2013-06-08T09:11:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s political posturing. Their base does not want anything done on climate change. The calculus changes when environmentalists disgruntled that Democrats aren’t paying enough attention to their issue start to look elsewhere. Nope, it is clear that you are not informed on what has been happening: > **[Reality Bites](https://prospect.org/environment/reality-bites/)** > > The science-based community once was split between Democrats and Republicans -- but not anymore. > [@](#): > > In March, it was Kerry Emanuel’s turn to do what so many of his colleagues have done before: defend their knowledge and expertise against congressional Republicans. > > Emanuel is a meteorologist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, an expert not only on climate change but hurricanes. In the 1990s, he coined the term “hypercane” to describe a theoretical storm that, according to his equations, could have occurred in the wake of the asteroid impact that killed off the dinosaurs. But as the sole Democrat-invited witness before the House Committee on Science–the GOP majority had five, one a marketing professor who testified that “global-warming alarm is an anti-scientific political movement”–Emanuel’s task was more like climate science 101. He merely had to stand up for what MIT teaches its students. > > As Emanuel explained in his written testimony, today’s MIT atmospheric-sciences students can do “hand calculations or use simple models” to show why global warming is a serious concern. Such calculations show that the planet will warm somewhere between 2.7 and 8.1 degrees Fahrenheit if we allow carbon-dioxide concentrations in the atmosphere to double. It’s a result, Emanuel observed, that scientists have understood at least since 1979, when the U.S. National Academy of Sciences released the first in what are now shelves of studies of the subject. You don’t get an atmospheric-sciences degree at MIT–with a climate focus, anyway–if you can’t show on the back of an envelope what much of Congress now calls into question. > > If Emanuel’s testimony was at times cutting, it was also impassioned. Addressing the alleged “Climategate” scandal–which he’d served on a British Royal Society committee to investigate–Emanuel noted that “there is no evidence for an intent to deceive” on the part of climate researchers. He continued, his voice rising: “Efforts by some to leverage this into a sweeping condemnation of a whole scholarly endeavor should be seen for what they are.” > > All of which is what you’d expect to hear from a frustrated climate scientist these days–except, Emanuel is a proud, lifelong Republican. Or at least, he was until recently, when he voted for Barack Obama, the first time he’s ever backed a Democrat. In 2008, Emanuel says, he was a “single issue” voter concerned about science and climate change. “I don’t like it when ideology trumps reason, and I see that the Republicans are guilty of that in spades at the moment,” he says. > [@adaher](#): > > The Democratic base is made up of a lot of groups with competing and often opposing agendas. From time to time, it will be possible to pick up some voters that way. A good example right now is liberals concerned with civil liberties. Hand the reigns over more to the libertarian side of the GOP and a lot of those types will be inclined to support us. Obama is killing the party’s brand right now on surveillance issues and the GOP should try to benefit from that. Another one where the ignorance shows, most leaders, even Republicans, were advised on those surveillance activities and did not make a move, that they are only reacting after the cat is out of the bag to what had bi-partisan support is not anything to be proud of. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/298 "2013-06-08T09:19:53Z")
Rand Paul did react, and he’s the unofficial leader of the libertarian wing of the party. Which is growing in strength. Mind you, I didn’t say that the GOP was winning civil libertarians, only that there’s an opportunity to win civil libertarians. And environmentalists. We’re only talking 3-5% of the vote here. They don’t have to suddenly start winning any group to win elections, they just have to maintain their dominance where they dominate and lose by a little less with some groups who the Democrats dominate: such as environmentalists and civil libertarians. And there are many other opportunities. Likewise, Democrats have opportunities to win some traditionally Republican contituencies, but it seems like they’ve given up on persuasion in favor of just waiting for demographics to bail them out. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/299 "2013-06-08T09:24:28Z")
Kerry Emmanuel and other Republican scientists like Bickmore and Richard Alley make a mockery about the “Just waiting for demographics” point. Just ignoring the cite is not going to work for you. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/300 "2013-06-08T15:44:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s political posturing. Their base does not want anything done on climate change. The calculus changes when environmentalists disgruntled that Democrats aren’t paying enough attention to their issue start to look elsewhere. > > The Democratic base is made up of a lot of groups with competing and often opposing agendas. From time to time, it will be possible to pick up some voters that way. A good example right now is liberals concerned with civil liberties. Hand the reigns over more to the libertarian side of the GOP and a lot of those types will be inclined to support us. Obama is killing the party’s brand right now on surveillance issues and the GOP should try to benefit from that. I agree with you here. But you aren’t talking about the area where Obama is most guilty of falling down on the job, and that’s jobs and Wall Street. Obama has shown little, if any, interest in actually doing anything to get more Americans working, other than saying he’d like that to happen, and he is clearly a tool for Wall Street. Republicans could pick up a LOT of dissatisfied Democrats if they had credible plans to get middle class Americans working again – by that I mean, something other than slobbering on the knobs of wealthy “job creators.” And if they had a credible plan to reign in the big banks, something Obama clearly can’t and won’t do. I don’t think Democrats need to worry about either of those things occurring. Sad day for the Republicans! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=16)