# Will The Republicans ever figure out why they lost? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224 "2012-12-26T21:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![JimNightshade](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jimnightshade/32/3354_2.png) [@JimNightshade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimNightshade)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/361 "2013-06-10T17:50:52Z")
I am bored now - can we talk about cookies instead? There is such a large amount of possible cookies that one could make. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/362 "2013-06-10T17:51:07Z")
> [@](#): > > And the two aren’t intrinsically linked? Not unless you’re an absolute idiot like Mourdock or Akin. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/363 "2013-06-10T20:01:58Z")
Except Mourdock (and Macahon for that matter) were essentially repeating the Republican platform. No abortion exceptions for rape victims. It was Romney who broke ranks on the issue. But abortion was just one example of my overall point. **Adaher** said that as long as you were winning on economic issues the social issues would fall to the backburner. But that isn’t the case at all. Even if the Republicans came out tomorrow with the greatest economic solution of all time they’d still struggle to win elections as long as they oppose things like the Violence Against Women Act or the Paycheck Fairness Act. No matter how great your ideas in one area it’s going to be very hard to get people to listen when your ideas for them in another are so terrible. When the people in charge of bringing in one demographic quit to back the opposition because they think you’re actively hostile to them, you’re in trouble. Until the Republicans can at least move to the middle on social issues they will struggle to ever win the Senate or the Presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/364 "2013-06-10T20:18:53Z")
“No abortion exceptions for rape victims” is a defensible position. “Any pregnant woman who claims she was raped is lying, because rape doesn’t cause pregnancy” is not. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/365 "2013-06-10T21:47:34Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Republicans do lead on economic freedom issues. Bullshit. There’s always been a consensus on economic freedom in this country. Nobody’s ever suggested eliminating basic ideas like the right to own property (with one admittedly notable exception) or the right to choose your job. These are things that everyone in the mainstream agrees on. The differences between Republicans and Democrats (or liberals and conservatives) are over economic policies not fundamental principles. > [@adaher](#): > > And not all social issues move to the left. Abortion opinions have remained stable, and support for assisted suicide has actually dropped. That last one is a funny one, because progressives have historically always been on the wrong side of those types of issues (eugenics, euthanasia, assisted suicide) You’d think that would be a good one for Democrats to get out in front of Republicans on, but for 100 years they haven’t. You’re talking about fringe issues which were never part of either party’s platform. There are a handful of liberals who support eugenics just as there are a handful of conservatives who support white supremacy. Neither group represents a major party. > [@adaher](#): > > Republicans stay to the right of Democrats on social issues because they don’t know in advance which way the wind is going to blow. They’ve been wrong more often than right, but past performance doesn’t always predict future performance. As a rule of thumb, anytime the Democrats suggest that “the people in this group should have the same rights as everyone else” they always end up being right in the long run. The Republicans should look at that and consider what it implies for their opposition to same-sex marriage. Thirty years from now, the Republican party will agree that gay people have the same right to get married as straight people have. So why are they choosing to be wrong on this issue now? ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/366 "2013-06-10T21:57:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > “No abortion exceptions for rape victims” is a defensible position. Clearly it’s not. Or Mourdock, the Republican candidate, in a Republican majority state, who was leading in every poll, would have won. To help highlight how little it resonates with the majority of voters, Mourdock had previously called for an end to direct election of senators even as he was running for the Senate. This did not hurt him in the polls. > [@](#): > > “Any pregnant woman who claims she was raped is lying, because rape doesn’t cause pregnancy” is not. This was what Akin said. It’s not what Mourdock said. Mourdock was under no delusions that you can’t get pregnant from being raped. Mourdock parroted the Republican party line that there should be no abortions for rape victims. A plank that is still part of the party platform. The obvious solution for Republicans is to at the very least move to the left and take the position held by their last presidential candidate, but instead they seem to have doubled down on the social conservatism. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/367 "2013-06-10T22:46:43Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > That rather than knowing why they lost the Republicans have moved to further alienate women of regardless of marital status? Sure Romney won married women, but he lost among women voters overall. In fact he was never winning to begin with. Even [Fox](http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/08/15/sad-truth-about-2012-women-vote/) recognized the problem back in August of last year. I read the article that you linked to and I think it’s wroth noting that although the author does identify the problem, he’s way off base on the root cause(s) of the situation: > [@](#): > > Women have been hit hard by Obama’s policies. They have struggled to find jobs. In many families, they are the household leaders writing the checks, balancing the checkbooks, and watching their household debt climb with each passing day. > > And yet it hasn’t changed their allegiance to a party–and a president–whose policies have helped place them in that sea of frustration. > > Female business owners are already being crippled by ObamaCare’s tax hikes and the overall regulatory burden. They watched our president tell them “You didn’t build that” after those women invested years of time, creativity, and money into making their visions a reality. Women in 2012 had not been hit hard by Obama’s policies. Rather, they were still hit hard by the collapse that occured during Bush’s last year in office. This wasn’t at all unique to women, either, as the country is still under recovery. He mischaracterizes Obama’s “You didn’t build that” line, as Republican’s were (and are) wont to do, but here the author is talking about “the sad truth” of things, and he’s not being truthful himself; his take on things isn’t just wrong it shows a lack of integrity. And the ACA hasn’t crippled anyone with tax hikes. Not this year and certainly not last summer, nearly two years before the ACA is set to take effect. This is the single biggest problem that Republicans face: their delusional views do not coincide with reality often enough. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/368 "2013-06-11T11:05:14Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > This was what Akin said. It’s not what Mourdock said. Mourdock was under no delusions that you can’t get pregnant from being raped. Mourdock parroted the Republican party line that there should be no abortions for rape victims. What got Mourdock in trouble was that he said that pregnancies, even from rapes, were gifts of God, and something God intended to happen. And even though he didn’t mean it that way, people took him to be saying that God wants women to be raped, and, especially after the Akin comments, it resonated. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/369 "2013-06-11T13:23:25Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > And the two aren’t intrinsically linked? Here’s a hint: the question Mourdock was responding to was about abortion. And so was the question that led to Akin’s comments. And failed 2012 Republican Connecticut senatorial candidate McMahon’s comments. And failed 2012 Republican North Dakota senatorial candidate Berg. > > Now failed 2012 Republican Pennsylvania senatorial candidate Smith was actually asked about rape. More specifically he was asked about Akin’s comments. So I guess that would ultimately fall to being asked about the Republican position on abortion. > > It’s abortion, not rape itself, that Republicans can’t talk about without seeing a loss of support, if only because they keep bringing rape up when talking about it. There is no comparable Democratic issue with the discussion of abortion. It’s not a topic that necessarily wins them votes, but there doesn’t seem to be any evidence that it causes otherwise would be supporters to drop them. The smart thing then would be for the Republicans to move to a more solid position, not the blanket ban that’s part of their platform. The reason Republicans keep bringing rape up with regard to the abortion issue is that they would very much NOT like to make an exception to abortion bans in the case of pregnancies caused by rape. If you take the position that abortion is murder, you have quite a moral dilemma on your hands, and a quickneasy solution is SOOOO appealing. So they buy into this shit about women’s bodies being able to reject the sperm implanted in them by rapists, and every woman and sensible man who has a wife or daughter does the 20 seconds or so of thinking needed to realize it’s bullshit, and the candidate loses all support. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/370 "2013-06-11T15:19:28Z")
They could just say something like “The possibility of unplanned pregnancy makes rape all the more tragic and heinous, and gives extra motivation for trying strenuously to do everything we can to minimize the incidence of rape.”, and then list all of the things they want to do to decrease rape. More funding to police to catch rapists, education campaigns to stress to men that no really does mean no, whatever. Heck, they could even draw in another of their favorite issues, and say that they’ll decrease rape by ensuring that more women are armed so they could defend themselves. Or rather, they _could_ do that, if they weren’t drooling idiots. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/371 "2013-06-11T20:59:22Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > The reason Republicans keep bringing rape up with regard to the abortion issue is that they would very much NOT like to make an exception to abortion bans in the case of pregnancies caused by rape. If you take the position that abortion is murder, you have quite a moral dilemma on your hands, and a quickneasy solution is SOOOO appealing. So they buy into this shit about women’s bodies being able to reject the sperm implanted in them by rapists, and every woman and sensible man who has a wife or daughter does the 20 seconds or so of thinking needed to realize it’s bullshit, and the candidate loses all support. There’s also the element of magic thinking. When people hear about somebody being the victim of some terrible event like rape or cancer or the death of a child, they don’t want to consider the possibility of the same thing happening to them. So they come up with a reason why the terrible event happened to that person: “She got raped because she was wearing a miniskirt” “He got cancer because he ate a lot of red meat” “Their kid died because they didn’t buy the right car seat”. And then they reassure themselves that they wouldn’t do the thing that they’ve asserted as the cause and therefore the terrible event won’t happen to them. They’ve protected themselves. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/372 "2013-06-11T23:29:46Z")
In addition, the party’s core values are based on denying help to the less fortunate on the basis that they deserve less help, on the basis of some moral failing or other. To accept that bad things happen to good people too, that it isn’t their fault and that the bad things could happen to you too, would be to accept a moral worldview that leads more to Democratic attitudes and policies. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/373 "2013-06-13T17:42:05Z")
I believe I’ve commented on this before, but it’s because the Democratic party is a coalition of single issue, low information and tribal voting blocs. Usually all three. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/374 "2013-06-13T18:02:56Z")
And that would be an example of why the answer to the question forming the thread title is “No.” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/375 "2013-06-13T18:05:36Z")
We already know the CW on this. When Democrats lose, it’s due to “structural reasons” having nothing to do with the quality of the Democrats’ platform. When Republicans lose, it’s a stern rebuke to the right-wing. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/376 "2013-06-13T18:22:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > We already know the CW on this. When Democrats lose, it’s due to “structural reasons” having nothing to do with the quality of the Democrats’ platform. When Republicans lose, it’s a stern rebuke to the right-wing. Considering how Liberal and Democratic values soon become common American values, I think you’re describing reality ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/377 "2013-06-13T18:36:22Z")
When Democrats don’t have to pretend to be conservatives to win national elections, I’ll believe that. Democrats win by saying, “Those are the crazy right-wingers! We’re the reasonable right-wingers!” ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/378 "2013-06-13T18:42:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > When Democrats don’t have to pretend to be conservatives to win national elections, I’ll believe that. > > Democrats win by saying, “Those are the crazy right-wingers! We’re the reasonable right-wingers!” And you prefer the crazy ones? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/379 "2013-06-13T18:52:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > When Democrats don’t have to pretend to be conservatives to win national elections, I’ll believe that. > > Democrats win by saying, “Those are the crazy right-wingers! We’re the reasonable right-wingers!” Well, yeah. I’m a Republican. But I often end up voting for a Democrat in national elections because all too often the Republican is a crazy right-winger and the Democrat is, for all practical purposes, a reasonable Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/380 "2013-06-13T18:56:27Z")
Well, yeah, someone’s got to occupy the center ground. If one party’s going to go way off into cuckoo land, the other is inevitably going to end up being relatively moderate. This is surprising? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=20)