# Will The Republicans ever figure out why they lost? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224 "2012-12-26T21:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/381 "2013-06-13T18:57:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > We already know the CW on this. When Democrats lose, it’s due to “structural reasons” having nothing to do with the quality of the Democrats’ platform. When Republicans lose, it’s a stern rebuke to the right-wing. Well, there’s a legitimate point there when you’re talking about things like the 2000 presidential election or the 2012 congressional election. In both those elections, the Democrats got more votes than the Republicans even though the Republicans won the elections. So I think you can make an argument that these were “structural reasons” defeats rather than a repudiation of the Democratic platform. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/382 "2013-06-13T18:59:03Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I believe I’ve commented on this before, but it’s because the Democratic party is a coalition of single issue, low information and tribal voting blocs. Usually all three. That may be how you view the people who vote for Democrats, but I don’t know anyone who fits that description. Me, members of my family, co-workers, etc., that I know are are not “tribal” (whatever that means), not low information votors, and not single issue. We actually prefer the platform and practices of the more progressive party. Strange, I know ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/383 "2013-06-13T19:00:31Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I believe I’ve commented on this before, but it’s because the Democratic party is a coalition of single issue, low information and tribal voting blocs. Usually all three. And it’s funny because you’re saying this seriously. ---
**Author:** ![singlebsling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@singlebsling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/singlebsling)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/384 "2013-06-13T19:01:25Z")
Apparently, I see more conservative MEN making decisions about the whole abortion debate … and mandating ultrasound legislation. I find it quite “easy” and pathetic of these men making decisions for women’s health since they themselves will never have to undergo … rape and getting pregnant. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/385 "2013-06-13T19:41:45Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I believe I’ve commented on this before, but it’s because the Democratic party is a coalition of single issue, low information and **tribal voting blocs**. Usually all three. > [@Procrustus](#): > > That may be how you view the people who vote for Democrats, but I don’t know anyone who fits that description. Me, members of my family, co-workers, etc., that I know are **are not “tribal” (whatever that means)**, not low information votors, and not single issue. We actually prefer the platform and practices of the more progressive party. Strange, I know A bit of googling the term brings up lots of stories about Kenyan politics and [this gem posted on a right-wing site called The PJ Tatler](http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/11/14/tribal-voting-behavior-means-the-republican-party-could-go-the-way-of-the-whigs/). The term seems to be a way of vaguely injecting both race and unthinking herd behaviour into a discussion. Note that the piece I linked to is big on supposition but short on facts (okay, there really are no facts at all). In that piece, the presence of “tribal voting” absolves the Republicans of responsibility for their electoral losses: [ > [@Myra Adams](#): > > It is painfully obvious that Democrats fully embrace the sheer strength and pull of tribal politics and there is not much Republicans can do about it. > [@Myra Adams](#): > > So unless there is a dramatic shift in our nation’s tribal voting behavior you can expect that shiny brass sign on the Republican National Committee headquarters to eventually be replaced by a law firm with either all Asian or Hispanic partners. ]([Tribal Voting Behavior Means The Republican Party Could Go The Way Of the Whigs – PJ Media](http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/11/14/tribal-voting-behavior-means-the-republican-party-could-go-the-way-of-the-whigs/)) In other words, the term “tribal voting” is a bullshit meaningless term meant to deride, stigmatize and stereotype the people it is applied to. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/386 "2013-06-13T22:33:44Z")
Well, of course, “tribal”. There is no more natural form of human organization, its a survival mechanism that goes right to the bone. One monkey is a dead monkey. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/387 "2013-06-13T22:44:48Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > In addition, the party’s core values are based on denying help to the less fortunate on the basis that they deserve less help, on the basis of some moral failing or other. And the party’s _other_ core values at this point are sexism, racism, homophobia, and so on. They keep on blurting out embarrassing sexist and racist and homophobic comments because they _genuinely are_ that bigoted; they aren’t just putting up an act to attract bigoted voters. They spent decades pandering to such people for votes, attracting them to the Republican party; and now, the bigots are the ones in charge. They’ve moved up the ranks and displaced most of the cynical manipulators with True Believers. As far as the thread title goes, a fair number _did_ seem to realize why they lost _right after_ the election, when the shock broke through their shell. But they swiftly retreated back into denial of reality. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/388 "2013-06-14T01:05:10Z")
The election was just like 2004. The GOP lost in 2012 for the same reason the Democrats did in 2004: a mediocre to poor incumbent managed to make the race a referendum on his opponent. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/389 "2013-06-14T01:18:53Z")
[QUOTE=adaher] When Democrats don’t have to pretend to be conservatives to win national elections, I’ll believe that. Democrats win by saying, “Those are the crazy right-wingers! We’re the reasonable right-wingers!” [/QUOTE] I guess I don’t understand your point. Is it more important in your mind to vote Republican regardless of how crazy or to vote for whatever party’s policies make the most sense? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/390 "2013-06-14T01:20:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The election was just like 2004. The GOP lost in 2012 for the same reason the Democrats did in 2004: a mediocre to poor incumbent managed to make the race a referendum on his opponent. You skipped 2008. What poor excuse will you come up with for the loss then? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/391 "2013-06-14T01:27:33Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I guess I don’t understand your point. Is it more important in your mind to vote Republican regardless of how crazy or to vote for whatever party’s policies make the most sense? YOu should also vote based on competence and honesty. But anyway, I do vote Democrat about a third of the time, precisely because both parties attempt to cater to voters like me. When the Democrats stop catering to me, then I’ll believe that the country has changed, because it will be a sign of boldness on their part that currently is non-existent. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/392 "2013-06-14T01:28:37Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > You skipped 2008. What poor excuse will you come up with for the loss then? 2008 was a backlash against eight years of poor Republican governance. Just as 2010 was a backlash against two years of Democratic overreach. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/393 "2013-06-14T02:17:52Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > In other words, the term “tribal voting” is a bullshit meaningless term meant to deride, stigmatize and stereotype the people it is applied to. I am trying to envision a world in which the various groups who vote Republican could possibly _not_ be characterized as tribal. Unless tribal means race and only race, it cannot be done. But I will gave the noxious Ms Adams credit for the following: > [@](#): > > If you want to call me a naysayer then go right ahead, but before you do, read what newly elected Republican Texas Senator Ted Cruz told Ryan Lizza of the New Yorker: > > > [@](#): > > > > In not too many years, Texas could switch from being all Republican to all Democrat…If that happens, no Republican will ever again win the White House. New York and California are for the foreseeable future unalterably Democrat. If Texas turns bright blue, the Electoral College math is simple. We won’t be talking about Ohio, we won’t be talking about Florida or Virginia, because it won’t matter. If Texas is bright blue, you can’t get to two-seventy electoral votes. The Republican Party would cease to exist. We would become like the Whig Party. Our kids and grandkids would study how this used to be a national political party. ‘They had Conventions, they nominated Presidential candidates. They don’t exist anymore.’ As I’ve said before, this is the future. I don’t believe it is the near future, because Texas would need to have its districts redrawn and the first election under any possible new rules would be 2024. That gives the Republicans 11 years to undo its self-branding as the Party of Intolerance. There is not a particle of evidence that will start before 2016, so in reality it will be much less time. It could happen in a world in which the entire party works toward the goal. I can’t see it in a world in which most of the elected politicians, the loudest media voices, and the commenters on message boards think in terms of Democrats and tribal voting. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/394 "2013-06-14T03:42:38Z")
These predictions of the future are useless. Imagine trying to extrapolate the 1980 electoral map into 2012. Or better yet, the 1984 electoral map. Or even the 1988 electoral map. Things suddenly got a little stable between 2000 and 2012 and all of a sudden hopeful liberals think that the trends will continue irregardless of events or the governing performance of the parties. Now Texas, that’s just wishful thinking. The GOP actually did better in Texas in 2012 than in 2008. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/395 "2013-06-14T03:57:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The election was just like 2004. The GOP lost in 2012 for the same reason the Democrats did in 2004: a mediocre to poor incumbent managed to make the race a referendum on his opponent. Bullshit again. Every campaign is about the candidates. If a mediocre to poor Obama beat Romney, then what does that say about Romney? And if Romney beat every other Republican candidate, what does that say about them? And don’t forget every other Republican presidential candidate except one has lost in the last twenty years. So, really, is George W. Bush the best the Republicans can offer America? Does every other possible Republican candidate rank behind him? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/396 "2013-06-14T04:05:20Z")
Romney was a politically weak candidate. The upcoming republican stars are not. The Democrats, meanwhile, with the exception of Hillary Clinton, just have a bunch of unexciting old white guys. There isn’t a young Obama-like candidate in the lot, unless you guys plan to rush Cory Booker into contention somehow. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/397 "2013-06-14T04:31:06Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > When Democrats don’t have to pretend to be conservatives to win national elections, I’ll believe that. > > Democrats win by saying, “Those are the crazy right-wingers! We’re the reasonable right-wingers!” I’m confused. So is Obama the most liberal president ever or is he just a moderate right winger? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/398 "2013-06-14T04:37:06Z")
Obama ran as a moderate right-winger. He governs as a liberal. Not unusual, that’s how Senators usually end up going down, by being conservative in South Dakota and Montana but liberal in DC. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/399 "2013-06-14T04:46:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Obama ran as a moderate right-winger. He governs as a liberal. Not unusual, that’s how Senators usually end up going down, by being conservative in South Dakota and Montana but liberal in DC. Which Senators, in your opinion, have done this? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/400 "2013-06-14T04:47:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Romney was a politically weak candidate. The upcoming republican stars are not. The Democrats, meanwhile, with the exception of Hillary Clinton, just have a bunch of unexciting old white guys. There isn’t a young Obama-like candidate in the lot, unless you guys plan to rush Cory Booker into contention somehow. If Romney was a politically weak candidate then why did he beat Bachmann, Barbour, Cain, Christie, Daniels, Gingrich, Huntsman, Johnson, McCotter, Paul, Pawlenty, Perry, Roemer, Santorum, and Trump? Were they all weaker than Romney? At what point does a lack of credible candidates become a reflection on the party? As for 2016, I’ve been predicting Andrew Cuomo will get the Democratic nomination. Okay, he’s a white guy - but at 55, he’s not real old by Presidential candidate standards. If the 2016 Republican strategy is another round of “hope the other guy is more boring than our candidate” they better start working on a new plan for 2020. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=21)