# Will The Republicans ever figure out why they lost? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224 "2012-12-26T21:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/441 "2013-06-14T22:18:34Z")
> [@](#): > > …but they always end up being a party of pussies who get outmaneuvered by the GOP… You want the Dems to have more guts? Give 'em yours. Other than that, what have you got? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/442 "2013-06-14T22:18:55Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Because of turnout. In 2010 about 50 million republicans went out of vote, and about 40 million democrats did. > > In 2008 about 70 million democrats and 60 million republicans went to vote. In 2012 about 66 million democrats voted vs 61 million republicans. > > The 2010 victory of the GOP was a fluke due to low turnout by the democrats. Compared to 2008 and 2010, about 10 million republicans stayed home, but about 25-30 million democrats stayed home. A lot was the fact that even with a supermajority, the democrats were still inept so why bother voting them back into office. It wasn’t people turning to the GOP, it was people feeling the dems weren’t worth the effort. Any turnout predictions for the 2014 midterms? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/443 "2013-06-14T22:26:26Z")
The trouble with Mr. Smith’s analysis is the people who don’t much think of themselves as “white”, specifically. I was raised amongst people who _did_ think of themselves as white, but they are mostly gone now. My generation and younger, we only think about white as a default choice on a form: yeah, white, I guess, sure… So of course we include hispanics and asians as “white”, so long as they don’t mind. The important thing is not to refine the distinction, but to cease giving a shit about it. In the words of St. Francis of Zappa, “Hey, people, I’m not black but there’s a whole lot of times I wish I could say I’ wasn’t white.” ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/444 "2013-06-14T22:31:33Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > The problem for the republicans is simple: a candidate with mass-appeal can’t get through their primaries, which tilt ultra-conservative. A moderate, populist like Christie would draw a lot of independents and conservative democrats in the general election, but compared to Santorum he’s a flaming liberal. And America is not going to put Santorum in the White House, but he’s the kind of guy the hard-core right wing primary voters love. > > 2016 will probably play out like 2012, with a compromise candidate like Romney. It wouldn’t be a huge surprise if that candidate is Jeb Bush. And the problem with that candidate is that he or she will have to say a ton of stupid shit to get through the primaries, much like mr self deportation and i hate the health care plan i invented did. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/445 "2013-06-14T22:57:55Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You want the Dems to have more guts? Give 'em yours. Other than that, what have you got? Get rid of Harry Reid. That would be a good start. Had the democrats had a competent senate majority leader, the filibuster rules could’ve been changed in 2009. And if the democrats were actually serious about progressive reform (which they aren’t, true progressive reform pisses off billionaires and companies collectively worth trillions) they could’ve gotten alot done in 2009 and 2010 since they’d only need 50 senators plus Biden. I tend to think the democrats just pretend to be progressive, the plutocracy is so entrenched that the dems aren’t going to take it on anytime soon. They will pretend to be progressive to get votes and donations, but when push comes to shove they’ll always be outclassed and fall a few votes short. Whats the solution? I don’t think there is one. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/446 "2013-06-14T22:59:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Any turnout predictions for the 2014 midterms? It won’t be as lopsided as 2010. In 2010 people were voting against one party rule, the GOP was hypermotivated and the democrats were not. Plus people had no idea how bad obstructionism would be. In 2014 people are going to vote while gov. is divided, they see how bad obstructionism is and both parties have roughly equal motivation. So it’ll be more of a tie, I would assume. The same way the senate in 2006, 2008 and 2010 were all lopsided in one direction or another, but 2012 was mostly a tie with only a handful of seats changing parties. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/447 "2013-06-14T23:47:29Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Had the democrats had a competent senate majority leader, the filibuster rules could’ve been changed in 2009. I am tempted to doubt whether any senator of either party really **wants** the filibuster gone. You might be in the majority party now, but you’ll be in the minority someday . . . ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/448 "2013-06-14T23:49:37Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I tend to think the democrats just pretend to be progressive, the plutocracy is so entrenched that the dems aren’t going to take it on anytime soon. They will pretend to be progressive to get votes and donations, but when push comes to shove they’ll always be outclassed and fall a few votes short. > > Whats the solution? I don’t think there is one. [Here’s a few.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=680473) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/449 "2013-06-15T00:57:04Z")
Third parties would hurt liberals more than conservatives. The Democratic Party, as has been pointed out here by people other than me, is a coalition of moderates and liberals, while the GOP is pretty much solely the province of the right these days. If moderates or liberals had a viable third option, the Democratic Party would splinter in short order, leaving the GOP as the single largest party. Assuming a Parliamentary system, they’d get first dibs at forming a majority with the moderate party. Progressives’ strength comes from being the most motivated group inside that party structure. If they had to stand on their own, they’d be about as influential as the Green Party. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/450 "2013-06-15T08:15:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > WEll, when the Democrat promises a “net spending cut”, what’s left but to propose bigger spending cuts? > … > When a Democrat promises a tough path to citizenship combined with better border enforcement, what’s left but to seek a tougher path to citizenship and even better enforcement? These comments can be paraphrased as “Those tricky Democrats adopted our reasonable positions. That forced us to adopt wacky positions too far to the right. Shame on the Democrats!” What does this tell you? > [@adaher](#): > > … > When a Democrat wants abortion to be “safe, legal, and rare”, what’s left but to propose “safe, legal, and really rare”? For this odd comment, I think the best punchline is Don Rumsfeld’s: “You’re stuck with the GOP you have, not the GOP you wished you had.” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/451 "2013-06-15T08:30:16Z")
The Democrats adopt a Republican pose, they don’t actually govern that way, Clinton excepted. Obama just ran a Clintonian campaign in 2008, while intending to govern like Walter Mondale. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/452 "2013-06-15T15:40:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Democrats adopt a Republican pose, they don’t actually govern that way, Clinton excepted. Obama just ran a Clintonian campaign in 2008, while intending to govern like Walter Mondale. Good luck finding a progressive to agree with that statement. ETA: That was intended to be just a comment on that particular comment. But I think we should make it a sticky. It would save a lot of time. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/453 "2013-06-15T16:23:19Z")
I very much doubt that Obama “intended” to “govern” as he is, he most likely did not anticipate the level of hair-tearing obstruction he encountered. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/454 "2013-06-15T16:25:44Z")
Well sure, he planned to do amnesty, cap and trade, health care, tax increases, spending increases, all in the first two years. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/455 "2013-06-15T16:30:14Z")
By any chance, is your source for this the same as the source for your other astonishing revelations? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/456 "2013-06-15T17:33:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well sure, he planned to do amnesty, cap and trade, health care, tax increases, spending increases, all in the first two years. Yeah, it’s time to drop that socialistic program of cap and trade and implement a market-based solution. What a pinko commie :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/457 "2013-06-16T02:34:08Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > By any chance, is your source for this the same as the source for your other astonishing revelations? He tried to pass all of those. Some did, some didn’t. Why would you think that what he actually tried to do, publicly, is some kind of “revelation”? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/458 "2013-06-16T02:58:28Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > He tried to pass all of those. Some did, some didn’t. Why would you think that what he actually tried to do, publicly, is some kind of “revelation”? For starters, there is no amnesty, and we know already, you are using definitions that are not even in the dictionary. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/459 "2013-06-16T08:05:54Z")
Fine, call it immigration reform where people who broke the law pay fines instead of getting deported. Unless of course the fines are waived. What I love is how the President is saying he isn’t getting everything he wants in the Gang of 8 bill. I’d love to know what he wants that he’s not getting. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/460 "2013-06-16T12:15:44Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Had the democrats had a competent senate majority leader, the filibuster rules could’ve been changed in 2009. Senate Rules need 2/3 to be changed. The so called “nuclear option” that Frist proposed was basically the Majority Leader just ignoring Senate rules. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=24)