# Will The Republicans ever figure out why they lost? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224 "2012-12-26T21:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/501 "2013-06-18T06:28:05Z")
One of the many many differences in outlook between Democrats and Republicans is a totally different conception of what their parties even are. The Democrats are a loose coalition and don’t imagine themselves as a single Party. Will Rogers summed this up best: “I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat.” Republicans are the opposite. If one farts, they all feel an obligation to fart. A paradox is that, in many ways, the Democrats have more nearly homogeneous views. They favor sane and moderate foreign policies, sane and moderate economic policies, etc. If “Liberty” means …, well, liberty, then the Democrats are the libertarians, in favor of allowing same-sex marriage, etc. The Republicans have wild inconsistencies. Some are strict isolationists; others think it’s America’s Christian duty to take on Gog and Magog in the Middle East. Some think government should shrivel to nothing; others want the Pentagon and NSA to spend more money than all social programs combined. Some believe in “creative destruction” and think Wall Street firms should have been allowed to collapse, plunging U.S. into a “creative” depression; others never saw a transfer from taxpayers to rich corporations that they didn’t like. Yet despite their wildly inconsistent views, the GOP places loyalty to Party above loyalty to country, truth or honor. Consider the Hastert Rule. Or, if one of them comes out in support of rape; they all step forth to explain why the “liberal media” is misinterpreting their “family values.” > [@adaher](#): > > No, I’m claiming that the defeats are not due to the ideology. If they were, Democrats would be running as proud liberals. > > And Democrats don’t even go THAT far, claiming they aren’t liberal enough. They never believe they did anything wrong at all. It’s always because of lies, or getting outspent, or they just rant for a few months about how stupid Americans are. And as usual, as we see in this quote, the Republicans believe that Democrats act with the same political principles (or lack thereof) that the GOP does. I think the great humorist from the Midwest summed up the present Republicans best: [QUOTE=Garrison Keillor in 2004] The party of Lincoln and Liberty has been transmogrified into the party of hairy-backed swamp developers and corporate shills, faith-based economists, fundamentalist bullies with Bibles, Christians of convenience, freelance racists, misanthropic frat boys, shrieking midgets of AM radio, tax cheats, nihilists in golf pants, brown-shirts in pinstripes, sweatshop tycoons, hacks, fakirs, aggressive dorks, Lamborghini libertarians, people who believe Neil Armstrong’s moonwalk was filmed in Roswell, New Mexico, little honkers out to diminish the rest of us, Newt’s evil spawn and their Etch-A-Sketch President, a dull and rigid man suspicious of the free flow of information and of secular institutions, whose philosophy is a jumble of badly sutured body parts trying to walk. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/502 "2013-06-18T07:32:49Z")
Except that’s not true. Republicans always have internal debates about the reasons for losing, and those reasons never amount to belief in conspiracies or a stupid public. Generally the conclusion is that we weren’t conservative enough, or didn’t articulate our principles properly, which is often wrong, but at least we aren’t blaming other people, or “structural issues”, which liberal-leaning political scientists used to explain their losses in 2010. “See, it’s not our fault, parties always lose big when the economy is bad!” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/503 "2013-06-18T07:55:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Generally the conclusion is that we weren’t conservative enough Conservatives lose elections. To candidates who are less conservative. And the conclusion is that we weren’t conservative enough. That’s not self-appraisal. That’s denial. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/504 "2013-06-18T08:17:28Z")
Yes, it is. Although there’s merit in the “not sticking to principles” theory. We certainly didn’t during the Bush years. Corruption and stupidity gets you every time. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/505 "2013-06-18T08:20:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Except that’s not true. Republicans always have internal debates about the reasons for losing, and those reasons never amount to belief in conspiracies or a stupid public. Democrats think Obama is the messiah. Blacks only voted for him because he’s black. People on welfare or unemployment are just voting in their own selfish interest. We must have voter ID laws to stop the rampant electoral fraud. Any of this ring a bell, adaher? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/506 "2013-06-18T08:43:00Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Democrats think Obama is the messiah. Blacks only voted for him because he’s black. People on welfare or unemployment are just voting in their own selfish interest. We must have voter ID laws to stop the rampant electoral fraud. > > Any of this ring a bell, adaher? Well, once Obama had the 47% of lazy freeloaders sewn up and you add all those illegal immigrants who clearly are voting somehow, _of course_ Obama was going to win. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/507 "2013-06-18T10:59:16Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > A paradox is that, in many ways, the Democrats have more nearly homogeneous views. They favor sane and moderate foreign policies, sane and moderate economic policies, etc. If “Liberty” means …, well, liberty, then the Democrats are the libertarians, in favor of allowing same-sex marriage, etc. As an actual member of the Democratic party - and active participant - I HAVE to throw a flag on this. The bickering and craziness among the varying views of the party are legion. The are union democrats and right-to-work democrats. There are isolationist Ds and active foreign policy Ds. There are welfare state Ds and self-reliances Ds. In truth, we’re as diverse as the Rs. But we’ve been on a winning streak and that means there’s less in the way of attention to the divides among us. The Rs are being picked apart because - other than 2010 - they’ve had a rough run for several election cycles. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/508 "2013-06-18T11:02:30Z")
The number one reason conservatives feel Romney lost is because he wasn’t conservative enough. He dodged so far to the left in the first presidential debate it left Obama dumbfounded. Of course Romney was about as paleoconservative-plutocratically conservative as they come, but he pretended to be quite liberal to earn votes. I fully expect a fire breathing conservative in 2016 to win the nomination. It’s extremely surprising we didn’t get one in 2012 considering McCain was often blasted as a RINO (which is laughable). ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/509 "2013-06-18T14:06:50Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > As an actual member of the Democratic party - and active participant - I HAVE to throw a flag on this. The bickering and craziness among the varying views of the party are legion. > > The are union democrats and right-to-work democrats. > There are isolationist Ds and active foreign policy Ds. > There are welfare state Ds and self-reliances Ds. > > In truth, we’re as diverse as the Rs. The difference in my view is that the Democrats are _diverse,_ the Republicans are _incoherent._ The Democrats disagree among themselves about all sorts of things and don’t pretend otherwise, the Republicans pretend to have a single unified agenda and are in denial apparently even to themselves that it just is not consistent. Taken as a whole the American conservative agenda has pretty much always been a mass of mutually contradictory assertions and agendas that are held together in one lump only because of the normal conservative disinterest in applying any kind of rationality to their beliefs. The famous “Get your government hands off my Medicare” is a pretty good example of the level of logic you can expect from a conservative mind. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/510 "2013-06-18T18:04:50Z")
Holding ritual votes to repeal Obamacare (something like three dozen times already, including just a month or so ago) is likely to help the Republicans gain more public support. True or false? Holding ritual votes to restrict reproductive rights, like they’re doing _right now_, is another. True or false? Dismissing or simply lyiing about rape, including wanting to require rape by abortion providers using objects called “transvaginal ultrasound”, is another still. True or false? Looking for ever-more-punitive ways to prevent the brown-skinned and Spanish-speaking from fully participating in the society they’ve chosen to join will help them too. True or false? And anyone here could go on and on. Point being, the GOP first needs to learn the First Rule of Holes. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/511 "2013-06-18T19:15:42Z")
I think another thing Dems have going for them is that they don’t reflexively excommunicate DINOs. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/512 "2013-06-18T20:17:35Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And anyone here could go on and on. Point being, the GOP first needs to learn the First Rule of Holes. [It’s political strategery](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b97zJxKEqAk) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/513 "2013-06-18T20:33:48Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > I think another thing Dems have going for them is that they don’t reflexively excommunicate DINOs. Well I wouldn’t have minded sending Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman into the cornfield back when they were Dems. Especially Nelson. He did more damage to the Dems than any Republicans ever did on several bills. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/514 "2013-06-18T21:08:38Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Holding ritual votes to repeal Obamacare (something like three dozen times already, including just a month or so ago) is likely to help the Republicans gain more public support. True or false? > > Holding ritual votes to restrict reproductive rights, like they’re doing _right now_, is another. True or false? > > Dismissing or simply lyiing about rape, including wanting to require rape by abortion providers using objects called “transvaginal ultrasound”, is another still. True or false? > > Looking for ever-more-punitive ways to prevent the brown-skinned and Spanish-speaking from fully participating in the society they’ve chosen to join will help them too. True or false? > > And anyone here could go on and on. Point being, the GOP first needs to learn the First Rule of Holes. They hold those ritual votes because every one of those bills is immensely popular. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/515 "2013-06-18T21:09:42Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Well I wouldn’t have minded sending Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman into the cornfield back when they were Dems. Especially Nelson. He did more damage to the Dems than any Republicans ever did on several bills. Yeah, but when push came to shove, him and a few others took bullets to get universal health care passed. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/516 "2013-06-18T21:15:03Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They hold those ritual votes because every one of those bills is immensely popular. When you say “immensely popular”, do you mean the same thing as the rest of us? Is there some sort of app to translate _adahese_ into standard English? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/517 "2013-06-18T21:17:44Z")
Which one of those do you think is not popular? Health care repeal is popular. Limits on abortion after the first trimester are very popular. Voter ID laws are one of the few issues where the voters are nearly unanimous, it’s only the Democratic partisans who don’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/518 "2013-06-18T21:48:14Z")
For starters, you said “immensely popular”, not simply “popular”. I suppose we could accept “popular” as being anything over 51%, but that would be pushing it almost to an absurdity. Now, if you would like to dial it back a few notches, you are free to do so. Or not say it in the first place, which would be better. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/519 "2013-06-18T22:49:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Which one of those do you think is not popular? > > Health care repeal is popular. Limits on abortion after the first trimester are very popular. Voter ID laws are one of the few issues where the voters are nearly unanimous, it’s only the Democratic partisans who don’t like it. I noticed that you left out the vaginal probing bills. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/520 "2013-06-18T23:05:18Z")
And he left out, as Paul Harvey used to say, the rest of the history. [http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/30/cnn-poll-gives-ammunition-to-both-sides-in-health-care-battle/](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/30/cnn-poll-gives-ammunition-to-both-sides-in-health-care-battle/) > [@](#): > > As you can imagine, after the poll went up online, opponents of the Affordable Care Act highlighted the first number in the survey, that 54% of Americans say they oppose the law. > > That’s true. > > But it’s far from the whole story. > > Supporters of the law point to the second number in the survey: That 35% oppose the health care law because it’s too liberal, with 16% saying they oppose the measure because it isn’t liberal enough. Add that 16% to the 44% who say they favor the law and that means that six in ten either support the law or don’t think it goes far enough. Or in other words, 60% are on the other side of the most vocal conservative critics of Obamacare. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=27)