# Will The Republicans ever figure out why they lost? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224 "2012-12-26T21:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/601 "2013-06-21T01:51:23Z")
According to bright young cub reporter Eugene Robinson… [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/28/AR2010062803119.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/28/AR2010062803119.html) > [@](#): > > …He eventually became a passionate advocate for civil rights, and he was one of the most vocal supporters of legislation making the birthday of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. a national holiday… ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/602 "2013-06-21T02:02:34Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Byrd [voted](http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0110/McCain_Grassley_Hatch_voted_against_MLK_Day.html) for it. Theorem: Any checkable statement posted by Adaher in thread #676834 can be proven wrong. Method: Google the statement. Procedure: Examine all checkable statements in thread #676834. Result: All checkable statements have been proven wrong. QED New Theorem: All checkable statements by Adaher in all threads in the Election forum can be proven wrong. The result is left as an exercise for the student. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/603 "2013-06-21T02:19:38Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > You do realize I didn’t make anything up, correct? > > [Table 1](http://jointcenter.org/sites/default/files/upload/research/files/BlackVote2004.pdf) > > As it is, wtf are you reading? Democrat to Republican ratio since 1936 > > 1936: 71 - 28 > 1940: 67 - 32 > 1944: 68 - 32 > 1948: 77 - 23 > 1952: 76 - 24 > 1956: 61 - 39 > 1960: 68 - 32 > 1964: 94 - 6 > 1968: 85 - 15 > 1972: 87 - 13 > 1976: 85 - 15 > 1980: 86 - 12 > 1984: 89 - 9 > 1988: 88 - 10 > 1992: 82 - 11 > 1996: 84 - 12 > 2000: 90 - 8 > > Exactly as I said. Before you try to critique anyone, make sure you know what it is you’re trying to respond to. Or read your OWN cite. I still find it amusing that you think citing black voting statistics before the 60s actually provides any useful information. Just as useful as black crime statistics in 1830s Alabama. Out of curiosity, do you think these black voting statistics would be any different were Southern black folks actually allowed to vote? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/604 "2013-06-21T02:22:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Hispanics and Asians on the other hand, there’s nothing in particular preventing them from supporting small government and the 10th amendment. There’s one thing preventing this, actually. It’s the Republican party. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/605 "2013-06-21T02:40:03Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The REpublicans aren’t going to be the anti-federalist party, so forget about it. > > Hispanics and Asians on the other hand, there’s nothing in particular preventing them from supporting small government and the 10th amendment. Er, what definition of “anti-federalist” are you using? Do you mean Republicans are the anti-federalist party? [Because that](http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/01/31/3823682/lawmakers-ready-to-assert-state.html) [would be](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05/06/republican-lawmakers-launch-government-reform-task-force/) [correct](http://articles.latimes.com/2011/aug/05/nation/la-na-states-rights-20110806), and you do use it correctly in the last sentence. Although I agree that as of the last 5 years or so the Republicans have been very inconsistent on this. Part of the GOP schizophrenia on the Federalist/Anti-Federalist issue is that the Libertarians are anti-federalist (weak Federal government) while the Tea Party is federalist (strong Federal government) _except_ when it does things they personally don’t like. Admittedly they don’t like Obama, so they’ve been pretty anti-federalist in rhetoric. But they would love to see their views passed as law on the Federal level. The easiest way to tell is to see how strongly they support the Constitution, the Tea Party is very big on it. That’s a Federalist stance. Libertarians are more in line with the old Articles of Confederation. Yes, the opposing viewpoints make for some interesting conflicts in the GOP. Fortunately the Libertarians are mostly just paid lip service unless there’s a Democratic president. And then everyone can agree that the Federal government should have no power. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/606 "2013-06-21T03:21:46Z")
Sorry, that was Stennis who voted against it. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/607 "2013-06-21T03:34:40Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yeah, later than Strom Thurmond did. > > And there’s more to civil rights than segregation. Thurmond voted for the MLK holiday. Byrd voted against. I’d say the far bigger issue is segregation. Voting for a holiday is minor in comparison. Besides, there’s other reasons that have nothing to do with racism for not wanting to add another holiday to the calendar. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/608 "2013-06-21T04:05:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I still find it amusing that you think citing black voting statistics before the 60s actually provides any useful information. Just as useful as black crime statistics in 1830s Alabama. The red herring aside, considering my post, it’s very relevant. Y’all like to go on about the Southern Strategy and how Blacks don’t vote Republican because Republicans are racist, yet when I point out that Blacks have been voting Democrat long _before_ the Southern Strategy, then that little fact is suddenly irrelevant. How does that work? > [@](#): > > Out of curiosity, do you think these black voting statistics would be any different were Southern black folks actually allowed to vote? You mean none did? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/609 "2013-06-21T04:07:49Z")
True, but there are actually other issues involved and the Southern Dems continued to be hostile to civil rights. It’s just not true at all that most of them, or even a large minority of them, became Republicans. Only one in the Senate, and his civil rights record immediately changed, and a few here and there in Congress and in the states. Pretty much all the segregationist governors stayed Democrats. But the real injustice isn’t the smear against the GOP, it’s the fact that Robert Byrd is forgiven when he was still a bigot until the day he died(he thundered that homosexuality was an abomination), and Thurmond is forever tarred because he switched parties. If Thurmond had stayed a Democrat and voted exactly the same way, he’d be remembered just like Byrd. The Southern Strategy is the same thing. The crime is that the South stopped being reliably Democratic, not that the South was racist. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/610 "2013-06-21T04:18:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Southern Strategy is the same thing. The crime is that the South stopped being reliably Democratic, not that the South was racist. No, the crime is that the South was, and still is, racist. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/611 "2013-06-21T04:41:28Z")
Heh, how time flies. Just eight years ago the Southern Strategy was a horrible, racist mistake to Republicans. [Then RNC Chairman Ken Mehlman](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-07-14-GOP-racial-politics_x.htm): > [@](#): > > Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman apologized to one of the nation’s largest black civil rights groups Thursday, saying Republicans had not done enough to court blacks in the past and had exploited racial strife to court white voters, particularly in the South. > > “Some Republicans gave up on winning the African-American vote, looking the other way or trying to benefit politically from racial polarization,” Mehlman said at the annual convention of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. “I am here today as the Republican chairman to tell you we were wrong.” > > Mehlman’s apology to the NAACP at the group’s convention in Milwaukee marked the first time a top Republican Party leader has denounced the so-called Southern Strategy employed by Richard Nixon and other Republicans to peel away white voters in what was then the heavily Democratic South. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/612 "2013-06-21T04:44:46Z")
Ken Mehlman is the definition of a political opportunist. Fuck that guy. (He, McCain and Graham can DIAF. Seriously.) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/613 "2013-06-21T04:59:32Z")
We’re getting side-tracked off topic with these discussions about civil rights votes. Here’s the big picture: The Democrats have generally been beating the Republicans in presidential elections. So assume the Democrats will continue doing in 2016 what they’ve done in the past. Do the Republicans have a plan for doing something different in 2016? Or are they going to deny their historical record of defeats and keep doing what hasn’t been working? ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/614 "2013-06-21T05:11:17Z")
|=|233 57()()|=5! ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/615 "2013-06-21T05:13:51Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > We’re getting side-tracked off topic with these discussions about civil rights votes. Here’s the big picture: > > The Democrats have generally been beating the Republicans in presidential elections. So assume the Democrats will continue doing in 2016 what they’ve done in the past. > > Do the Republicans have a plan for doing something different in 2016? Or are they going to deny their historical record of defeats and keep doing what hasn’t been working? I think that many Republicans know that they need to change their message and methods but they need to start by getting their own officials to stop doing stupid crap like this: [http://www.sfgate.com/news/us/article/Appalling-email-in-Illinois-spurs-new-GOP-rift-4611987.php](http://www.sfgate.com/news/us/article/Appalling-email-in-Illinois-spurs-new-GOP-rift-4611987.php) I tend to vote pretty much Democratic…it’s not that I think the Republican party doesn’t have some good ideas and solid candidates but every time something like this hits the news (and it’s not exactly unusual) I just cannot see myself voting for them. This country will really benefit if we’ve got two (or more) quality political parties but the Republicans have some major house-cleaning to do before I (43, white, married, middle class) will consider them seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/616 "2013-06-21T05:22:54Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > |=|233 57()()|=5! I’m impressed. This post was your most incoherent yet. And you’ve set a high bar. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/617 "2013-06-21T05:28:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m impressed. This post was your most incoherent yet. And you’ve set a high bar. My posts are always coherent. You’re just not hip (nor apparently young) enough to understand my post, is all. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/618 "2013-06-21T06:00:11Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > No, the crime is that the South was, and still is, racist. Their progress would be lauded if they were still part of the Democratic coalition, just as southern Dems have been almost universally lauded as progressives, so long as they stayed with the party. If they defected, they were basically the devil, even if their civil rights record was superior to those who stayed with the Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/619 "2013-06-21T06:09:00Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > As it is, wtf are you reading? Democrat to Republican ratio since 1936 > > 1936: 71 - 28 > … > 1956: 61 - 39 > … > 1984: 89 - 9 > > Exactly as I said. Before you try to critique anyone, make sure you know what it is you’re trying to respond to. Or read your OWN cite. 😕 😕 😕 :smack: Since your numbers are exactly the same as the ones I posted, I’m at a loss to understand the purpose of your latest message. Let me make things simple for you: 89-9 … Overwhelming. 61-39 … Not. Get it? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/620 "2013-06-21T06:14:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > However, I don’t see any way for Republicans to appeal to black voters, and since black voters, like white voters, are a declining portion of the populace, I’m not sure why they should bother. **ElvisL1ves** beat me to it … > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Because they’re _Americans_. :dubious: … but I’ll say it anyway: In a proper democracy, government is of _all_ the people. That, as one Republican just admitted, the GOP sees government as serving only its own voters is one reason many of us despise that Party so much. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=32)