# Will The Republicans ever figure out why they lost? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224 "2012-12-26T21:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/621 "2013-06-21T09:07:26Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > The red herring aside, considering my post, it’s very relevant. Y’all like to go on about the Southern Strategy and how Blacks don’t vote Republican because Republicans are racist, yet when I point out that Blacks have been voting Democrat long _before_ the Southern Strategy, then that little fact is suddenly irrelevant. How does that work? Because millions of black voters were prevented from voting before the Southern Strategy- if they had voted, it’s very likely that the numbers would be substantially different. Even aside from this, the numbers before the 60s and after the 60s are strikingly different. > [@](#): > > You mean none did? Relatively few did. I assume you know what I mean, but I’d be happy to educate you if you need assistance. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/622 "2013-06-21T10:11:40Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > My posts are always coherent. And some of them have corn in them… ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/623 "2013-06-21T11:02:26Z")
@Fear Itself: _Nice_. OT: I doubt it. I mean, just look at [Jindal](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=694322). The republican party basically held on during this election due to gerrymandering - in terms of pure popular vote, they lost the house of representatives badly. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/624 "2013-06-21T11:44:37Z")
This entire thread is a lasting example that at least some Republicans haven’t come close to figuring out why they lost. They lost because their ideas and candidates were inferior in both 2004 and 2008. Unless they come up with some more popular ideas and some better candidates (and perhaps more importantly refute their most unpopular ideas and most incendiary candidates/pundits) they will continue to lose. Not blocking an immigration bill that is likely to pass with nearly 70 votes in the Senate would be a start. Refuting the more outlandish commentary about it would be even better (think along the lines of Christie’s lambasting of the “Ground Zero mosque” idiots). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/625 "2013-06-21T11:50:47Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > They lost because their ideas and candidates were inferior in both 2004 and 2008. You mean 2008 and 2012, I assume. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/626 "2013-06-21T13:07:41Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > This entire thread is a lasting example that at least some Republicans haven’t come close to figuring out why they lost. > > They lost because their ideas and candidates were inferior in both 2004 and 2008. Unless they come up with some more popular ideas and some better candidates (and perhaps more importantly refute their most unpopular ideas and most incendiary candidates/pundits) they will continue to lose. > > Not blocking an immigration bill that is likely to pass with nearly 70 votes in the Senate would be a start. Refuting the more outlandish commentary about it would be even better (think along the lines of Christie’s lambasting of the “Ground Zero mosque” idiots). [http://www.trbimg.com/img-5112d313/turbine/la-na-tt-right-wing-smears-20121029-001/600/600x450](http://www.trbimg.com/img-5112d313/turbine/la-na-tt-right-wing-smears-20121029-001/600/600x450) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/627 "2013-06-21T14:49:56Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > This entire thread is a lasting example that at least some Republicans haven’t come close to figuring out why they lost. I sometimes think the answer is just the opposite; they have figured it out. Repeatedly. Several times an hour, in fact. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/628 "2013-06-21T15:22:27Z")
It’s not about figuring out anything, they know exactly why they lost. That’s why you see the presidential side of the party trying to get the troglodytes in line. It just won’t happen, because the Republicans we see saying and doing stupid shit are doing it because it’s what their base wants an expects. Any house Republican from a gerrymandered district that tries to change anything that would help the party on the national level is going to get primaried. It’s not that the party can’t figure out what’s wrong, it’s that change for a lot of them means ending their careers. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/629 "2013-06-21T15:30:10Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Not blocking an immigration bill that is likely to pass with nearly 70 votes in the Senate would be a start. Refuting the more outlandish commentary about it would be even better (think along the lines of Christie’s lambasting of the “Ground Zero mosque” idiots). If it passes with 70 votes, it will probably be a good bill that the House should support. The border compromise looks pretty good, although I’d need to see the entry/exit system and E-verify also in place before green cards. But the way it was, it had 60 or so, and that only if they rushed it through before the public could way in. Give it another month of debate and they’d be lucky go get 52. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/630 "2013-06-21T15:35:41Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > It’s not about figuring out anything, they know exactly why they lost. That’s why you see the presidential side of the party trying to get the troglodytes in line. It just won’t happen, because the Republicans we see saying and doing stupid shit are doing it because it’s what their base wants an expects. Any house Republican from a gerrymandered district that tries to change anything that would help the party on the national level is going to get primaried. It’s not that the party can’t figure out what’s wrong, it’s that change for a lot of them means ending their careers. You might have something there. The last few times the conservative Republicans actually were in power, they self-destructed under the weight of their own platform. Maybe the rank and file have just decided they’re better off as a permanent opposition party. They have nice safe jobs, they can make promises they’ll never have to keep, and they have a Democratic president that they can blame everything on. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/631 "2013-06-21T15:39:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Southern Strategy is the same thing. The crime is that the South stopped being reliably Democratic, not that the South was racist. But that happened because the Democratic Party (in the early '60s) decided to stop being racist, and that drove the racists out of it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/632 "2013-06-21T16:03:01Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > |=|233 57()()|=5! [133+!](http://www.galactanet.com/comic/view.php?strip=79)🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/633 "2013-06-21T16:52:51Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > 😕 😕 😕 :smack: > Since your numbers are exactly the same as the ones I posted, I’m at a loss to understand the purpose of your latest message. Let me make things simple for you: > > 89-9 … Overwhelming. > 61-39 … Not. > > Get it? This is some bullshit self-rationalization on your part. I’m glad that you decided to look at the closest year prior to 1960 (1956) while ignoring the rest, but just because you did, doesn’t mean it works, nor does it mean it makes sense. Let’s take the 2012 election, shall we? Republicans lost the total women vote by 11 points, the “youth” vote by 24 points and the Hispanic vote by 44 points; all of which liberals are quick to point out are huge disparities. But the fact that Republicans have been losing the “Black vote” by around 30+ points consistently since 1936, where they actually lost it by 43 points? Naw, that’s nothing. Makes sense. (Seriously. Do you not realize just how huge a 30%+ disparity is, much less a 40% disparity?) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/634 "2013-06-21T17:38:01Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > This is some bullshit self-rationalization on your part. I’m glad that you decided to look at the closest year prior to 1960 (1956) while ignoring the rest, but just because you did, doesn’t mean it works, nor does it mean it makes sense. Let’s take the 2012 election, shall we? > > Republicans lost the total women vote by 11 points, the “youth” vote by 24 points and the Hispanic vote by 44 points; all of which liberals are quick to point out are huge disparities. But the fact that Republicans have been losing the “Black vote” by around 30+ points consistently since 1936, where they actually lost it by 43 points? Naw, that’s nothing. > > Makes sense. > > (Seriously. Do you not realize just how huge a 30%+ disparity is, much less a 40% disparity?) LOL- yes, a 30 point disparity is big. But not nearly as big as an 80 point disparity. And the 30 point disparity isn’t particularly convincing when it came from a time when millions of black people were held back from voting by racist democrats- I’ll ask again, what do you think the disparity would have been if every black adult who wanted to vote back then was able to? ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/635 "2013-06-21T17:56:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You mean 2008 and 2012, I assume. Yes, of course. Typing before coffee is dangerous. > [@adaher](#): > > If it passes with 70 votes, it will probably be a good bill that the House should support. The border compromise looks pretty good, although I’d need to see the entry/exit system and E-verify also in place before green cards. > > But the way it was, it had 60 or so, and that only if they rushed it through before the public could way in. Give it another month of debate and they’d be lucky go get 52. Well, one could look at the farm bill as an example. It passed with 66 votes in the Senate only to get blown up in the House. So instead of a measured reduction in food stamps and an elimination of agricultural socialism we get the status quo. I have no doubt that if an immigration bill passes the House at all it will be with primarily Democratic votes. What will really matter to me is what the eventual GOP nominee (and, of course, my local candidates) has to say about the matter. Think Ted Cruz vs. Chris Christie. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/636 "2013-06-21T18:27:38Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > This is some bullshit self-rationalization on your part… > But the fact that Republicans have been losing the “Black vote” by around 30+ points consistently since 1936, where they actually lost it by 43 points The only reason I got snarky was that you’d failed to comprehend the only point raised in my post – as indicated by the fact that you posted the same numbers I’d quoted as if they were a refutation. :smack: We seem to disagree about the word “overwhelming.” Your mention of 1936 above overlooks that almost as high a portion of blacks as whites voted GOP in the 1936 election. But let’s set aside quibbles about the meaning of “overwhelming.” What’s your underlying thesis? That blacks voted against their self-interest? [Here’s an article mentioning Nelson Rockefeller appealing to blacks in the early 1960’s. GOP responded by … nominating Goldwater :smack:](http://www.rockarch.org/publications/resrep/thurber.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/637 "2013-06-21T21:26:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You might have something there. The last few times the conservative Republicans actually were in power, they self-destructed under the weight of their own platform. Maybe the rank and file have just decided they’re better off as a permanent opposition party. They have nice safe jobs, they can make promises they’ll never have to keep, and they have a Democratic president that they can blame everything on. An effective opposition party, given the nature of conservatism, is actually better than a ruling party made up of GWB and Tom Delay. So yeah, there’s something to that. I’m a lot more thrilled to have a few Tea Party Senators than the Republican Senate of 2003-2006. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/638 "2013-06-21T21:29:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But that happened because the Democratic Party (in the early '60s) decided to stop being racist, and that drove the racists out of it. The first part is right, the second part is not. As I pointed out, most of the racists stayed. What actually happened is that when segregation was no longer a partisan issue, voters and politicians had to decide their party affiliation based on other issues. Racist Democrats were still quite welcome in the party into the 80s, and the Democrats’ recent push towards gay equality never stopped liberals from loving the anti-gay bigot Robert Byrd. As I said, the true crime is being a Republican. A Democratic bigot is a progressive champion with some unfortunately retrograde views which can be overlooked as long as he votes against privatizing Social Security. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/639 "2013-06-21T21:34:12Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Yes, of course. Typing before coffee is dangerous. > Well, one could look at the farm bill as an example. It passed with 66 votes in the Senate only to get blown up in the House. So instead of a measured reduction in food stamps and an elimination of agricultural socialism we get the status quo. That’s a bit of a different dynamic. Democrats opposed the food stamp cuts, Tea Party Republicans wanted farm subsidies phased out. > [@](#): > > I have no doubt that if an immigration bill passes the House at all it will be with primarily Democratic votes. What will really matter to me is what the eventual GOP nominee (and, of course, my local candidates) has to say about the matter. Think Ted Cruz vs. Chris Christie. The way it’s going right now, the House will pass its own immigration bill and it will go to conference. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/640 "2013-06-21T22:03:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The first part is right, the second part is not. As I pointed out, most of the racists stayed. What actually happened is that when segregation was no longer a partisan issue, voters and politicians had to decide their party affiliation based on other issues. > > Racist Democrats were still quite welcome in the party into the 80s, and the Democrats’ recent push towards gay equality never stopped liberals from loving the anti-gay bigot Robert Byrd. > > As I said, the true crime is being a Republican. A Democratic bigot is a progressive champion with some unfortunately retrograde views which can be overlooked as long as he votes against privatizing Social Security. Moving the goalposts to save face, unfortunately, that game is over. > **[The GOP's new fake racial history](https://www.salon.com/2010/09/02/haley_barbour_race_history/)** > > A Southern Republican with designs on challenging Barack Obama in 2012 offers a phony version of history > [@](#): > > In Barbour’s revisionist history, old segregationist Democrats from the South stood in the way of integration in the ’50s and ’60s, but then a new, enlightened generation of post-racial conservatives came of age and transformed the region into a Republican bastion for … some other reason. > > In reality, the Republicans’ domination of the South today is a direct result of the party’s rejection of civil rights in ’64 (and Nixon’s Southern Strategy, which called for coded appeals and behind-the-scenes assistance to Southern bigots). The partisan disparities in Southern elections speak to an enduring racial divide: While Barack Obama won nearly 45 percent of the white vote nationally in 2008, he got just 11 percent in Mississippi and 10 percent in Alabama. > > It’s understandable why Barbour doesn’t like to talk about this — and why most national Republicans would rather ignore it. The South is critical to them, and their support in that region comes almost exclusively from white voters. But to be a national party — and to win the White House — requires votes from educated suburbanites outside the South who have a strong distaste for racial politics. Thus, the party takes pains every four years to showcase as many black Republicans as it can at its national convention — a message not so much to black voters but to white suburbanites who want reassurance that they’re not voting for a Goldwater party. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=33)