# Will The Republicans ever figure out why they lost? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224 "2012-12-26T21:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/821 "2013-06-26T22:22:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Right now, even Democratic voters support voter ID laws . . . Cite? > [@adaher](#): > > . . . and will continue to do so until told to think differently. Cite? > [@adaher](#): > > Is that going to be part of the next election campaign? Please say yes. [I daresay it will be an issue.](http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/Congressman-files-suit-to-stop-Texas-voter-ID-law-4624004.php) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/822 "2013-06-26T22:50:26Z")
Filing suit is not campaigning. It’s the opposite, actually. Again, 30 states or more have voter ID laws. Democrats are campaigning publicly to overturn them in exactly zero. Court cases is a different matter, that’s the anti-democratic way to do it. Doesn’t mean it’s not justified, some voter ID laws are unconstitutional. But a party confident in its rightness on this issue would make it an important part of a campaign. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/823 "2013-06-27T00:45:04Z")
Just so you know, **addy** , when we talk about our problems with voter id laws, it doesn’t have much to do with the laws themselves, or the validity thereof, or even the incredible absolutely overwhelming nearly unanimous popularity of those laws. It has to do with perverting the law to serve the partisan electoral advantage of a particular party. The Republican Party, in case that needs to be said. Telling us how popular the laws are is beside the point, as is telling us how legal and constitutional they are. Done right, done with a firm commitment to equality in the polling place, there is nothing inherently wrong with voter id, so long as the state that requires them is willing to go the extra mile to ensure equality. You may, if you wish, pretend that such applications of the law that we’ve seen are strictly non-partisan and not crafted to offer unearned political advantage to Republicans. You can pretend to believe that, of course you can! I don’t really _believe_ you are that stupid, but if it will make you feel more welcome, I will try to pretend that I do. Acting! ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/824 "2013-06-27T16:35:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No, it’s not. Voter ID laws have been an issue for a very long time, ever since people realized that you could vote without ID, but can’t do anything else without ID, even exercise fundamental rights like petition your representatives. **Apparently, the 1st amendment is less important than voting to Democrats, which is understandable, since the 1st amendment doesn’t swing elections for them. Fraud does.** Opponents of voter ID disingenously point to the low number of convictions as evidence that voter fraud isn’t a problem. I could do the same thing with tax fraud to say we don’t need the IRS to look at tax returns, rather we should just use the honor system. > > Where voter ID laws have been upheld, and they are actually quite constitutional, there has been no significant disenfranchisement. Do you have a cite for the bolded assertion? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/825 "2013-06-27T16:42:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > …Maybe Hispanic voters believe in the integrity of elections more than whites do because they are used to having elections stolen. How do the pollers define “Hispanic”? Do they include Cuban-Americans as being “Hispanic”? You are aware, I am sure, that Cuban-Americans in Florida are well and widely known for their lockstep support of anything Republican. Is their continuing support supposed to represent some remarkable fact? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/826 "2013-06-27T17:06:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Then the Democrats lose again, because BOTH parties believe in unilateralism, the Democrats just in practice try really hard to be multilateral. But as Obama said again and again during the campaign and continues to say today, we will act alone if necessary. > > Now many of the specific things you mentioned, a lot of Americans oppose that, but regarding the idea that America can and should act alone when its in our interest to do so, it’s a position both parties hold because those that don’t hold it are a tiny fringe group on the left. If Democrats agree then how do they lose? ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/827 "2013-06-27T17:16:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > As for adding barriers to the poor, poor people must have ID already. They need it to get benefits, they need it to work. So try again. Adaher, my friend, you simply don’t know what you’re talking about here. There are members of my extended family who live below the poverty line in their states, work, and have no documentation their states consider an acceptable form of ID. Forcing them to obtain a form of ID acceptable to their state for voting purposes would present a hardship, especially for those who live a great distance from the nearest facility and have no car, as well as the high probability of having to do this during a work day, which would necessitate losing a day’s pay, or worse, possibly their jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/828 "2013-06-27T17:46:24Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > Adaher, my friend, you simply don’t know what you’re talking about here. > > There are members of my extended family who live below the poverty line in their states, work, and have no documentation their states consider an acceptable form of ID. Forcing them to obtain a form of ID acceptable to their state for voting purposes would present a hardship, especially for those who live a great distance from the nearest facility and have no car, as well as the high probability of having to do this during a work day, which would necessitate losing a day’s pay, or worse, possibly their jobs. This [article](http://www.npr.org/2012/01/28/146006217/why-new-photo-id-laws-mean-some-wont-vote) discusses why some people have difficulty meeting the new ID requirement. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/829 "2013-06-27T18:19:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > As for adding barriers to the poor, poor people must have ID already. They need it to get benefits, they need it to work. So try again. Oh my. “It’s taking longer than we thought” indeed. :dubious: There are 1000-post threads refuting your claims. I think even Professor Bricker had his ignorance successfully fought (though he views disenfranchisement as a feature, not a bug). When come back, bring clue. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/830 "2013-06-27T18:33:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Apparently, the 1st amendment is less important than voting to Democrats, which is understandable, since the 1st amendment doesn’t swing elections for them. Fraud does. The only kinds of fraud that ever swing elections are ballot-box stuffing and dishonest vote-counting. Which are not done by the voters. [Here, read this.](http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/pictures/the-voter-fraud-myth-debunked-20120612) > [@](#): > > **The Truth About Voter Fraud** > > As we’ve reported at Rolling Stone, over the past few years Republicans in more than a dozen states have been knocking themselves out passing laws that make it harder for people to vote. It hasn’t escaped notice that the voters most affected by these measures – from voter ID laws to restrictions on early voting – are _Democrats._ But no matter: Republicans deny they’re waging a partisan “war on voting” – they say the new laws are needed to combat rampant voter fraud. That’s the line laid down most recently by Florida Gov. Rick Scott to justify purging his state’s voter rolls of alleged noncitizens. “We need to have fair elections,” he said last week. “When you go out to vote, you want to make sure that the other individuals that are voting have a right to vote.” > > But here’s the thing: Not only is voter fraud not rampant – _it’s virtually nonexistent._ The iron-clad word on the subject comes from the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of Law, whose 2007 report, ‘The Truth About Voter Fraud,’ sorts through thousands of allegations going back to the 1990s in the most in-depth voter fraud study ever undertaken. The bottom line, confirmed by all subsequent research: “Usually, only a tiny portion of the claimed illegality is substantiated — and most of the remainder is either nothing more than speculation or has been conclusively debunked.” In fact, “one is more likely to be struck by lightning than to commit voter fraud.” > > We’ve used the Brennan findings to put together this quick-and-dirty guide to voter fraud claims. Click through to find out about the most commonly cited voter fraud allegations – and why they almost never pan out. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/831 "2013-06-27T18:38:41Z")
And [here’s](http://www.brennancenter.org/publication/truth-about-voter-fraud) the Brennan Center’s report. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/832 "2013-06-27T19:05:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > How do the pollers define “Hispanic”? Do they include Cuban-Americans as being “Hispanic”? You are aware, I am sure, that Cuban-Americans in Florida are well and widely known for their lockstep support of anything Republican. Is their continuing support supposed to represent some remarkable fact? That’s because so many of them are oligarchs who fled Cuba when their good buddy, the dictator Batista, went down. Of COURSE they love the Republican Party, these wealthy hangers-on of a corrupt oligarchy know kindred souls when they see them. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/833 "2013-06-27T20:07:50Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > This [article](http://www.npr.org/2012/01/28/146006217/why-new-photo-id-laws-mean-some-wont-vote) discusses why some people have difficulty meeting the new ID requirement. Thanks for the article. Interesting, yet somewhat infuriating, to read something that confirms my relatives’ circumstances. It is sad to note that, as far as people like \*\*adaher \*\*are concerned, these people don’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/834 "2013-06-27T21:11:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Voter ID laws were a big part of the election, or even a small part? No. They were a teeny-teeny part. Voter ID was a huge part of the election, both its implementation by nakedly partisan GOP officials and the righteous anger at voter suppression that prompted millions to vote in record numbers. Remember the polls to which you were so famously enamored with on this board, how you claimed everyone except Fox and conservative media outlets were wrong, that only you guys had the “real” numbers? How’d that work out for you? Hell, you disappeared in embarrassment for weeks after the election, and now you’re here again peddling the same brand of bullshit like you have a goldfish’s memory for being wrong. Here’s what you need to accept. The polls were right about Democratic support. Conservative media was dead wrong. Liberal and non-biased media established its credibility, yet again, by a huge margin of victory for Obama. And now these same people are telling you something again that you refuse to hear: Voter ID doesn’t protect the vote, it prevents voting, and mainly Democratic voting. If that bothers you, which I’m not sure it does, then you should be against Voter ID and Voter Fraud Reform, since it either doesn’t exist or is perpetuated by conservatives. Again, I’m not going to spend a lot of time on this trying to convince you, you’ve shown little ability to learn from past conservative mistakes. This thread proves its point: you haven’t learned. Conservatives haven’t learned. And you will lose and lose bigger and bigger until you do. Your ONLY recourse is to admit that you cannot and will not get close to 100% of what you want politically. You have to give up some beliefs so that you’ll survive. Call it karma because it sure ain’t god’s doing, but entrenched beliefs of conservatives need to be taken out to the back and put out of its misery You will not win by calling immigrants “illegal” and deporting children, you will not win by continuing to block women’s health or gay marriage, and you will not win if you don’t give up some defense spending for social spending. Then again, I don’t want you guys to win, so keep doing what you’re doing 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/835 "2013-06-27T22:54:32Z")
From your lips to Rick Perry’s ears, Yog. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/836 "2013-06-27T23:28:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Opponents of voter ID disingenously point to the low number of convictions as evidence that voter fraud isn’t a problem. We also point to the W/Cheney DoJ’s failure to find any there there after eight years of desperate hunting. And [the firing of U.S. attorneys who balked.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dismissal_of_U.S._attorneys_controversy) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/837 "2013-06-28T01:19:05Z")
GOP’s 20-week abortion ban supported by 48-44 margin. Women favor the ban more than men: [http://www.nationaljournal.com/congressional-connection/coverage/americans-narrowly-support-20-week-abortion-ban-20130626](http://www.nationaljournal.com/congressional-connection/coverage/americans-narrowly-support-20-week-abortion-ban-20130626) Why are Democrats waging a war against women? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/838 "2013-06-28T01:39:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > GOP’s 20-week abortion ban supported by 48-44 margin. Women favor the ban more than men: > > [http://www.nationaljournal.com/congressional-connection/coverage/americans-narrowly-support-20-week-abortion-ban-20130626](http://www.nationaljournal.com/congressional-connection/coverage/americans-narrowly-support-20-week-abortion-ban-20130626) > > Why are Democrats waging a war against women? Why are you waging a war for ignorance? > **[News Links Archive - GQR](https://www.gqrr.com/news/)** > [@](#): > > A majority of Texans oppose the legislation currently being considered by the legislature that imposes restrictions on abortion and 80 percent do not want abortion to be raised during the special session of the legislature called at the end of May by Governor Rick Perry. > > Of registered voters, 63 percent say the state has enough restrictions on abortion and 71 percent thinking that the Governor and legislature should be more focused on the economy and jobs. A majority opposes the sort of legislation passed by the state Senate and being considered by the state House during this legislative Special Session, believing that it imposes further restrictions on abortion. Overall, only 34 percent trust the Governor and the legislature to make decisions about women’s healthcare. Indeed that poll you are talking about is not coming from a well renown pollster and then there is the problem that one poll can only get you an outlier with that error level. > **[Americans Do NOT "Narrowly Support" 20-Week Abortion Ban – The Moderate Voice](https://themoderatevoice.com/americans-do-not-narrowly-support-20-week-abortion-ban/)** > > Even if the National Journal claims that we do. Ironically, the National Journal acknowledges in its lede (not its headline) that its survey shows a plurality support for banning abortions after 20 weeks. But the latest United Technologies/National... > [@](#): > > The lede refers to “late abortions” but the survey specifically asks about abortions at 20-weeks. Which is, for the math-challenged, 4.5 weeks months or mid-point in pregnancy. > > And what’s this plurality of which they speak? 48% to 44% with 8% undecided. > > Anyone want to guess at the margin of error for a survey of 1,005 adults? Do you think it is less than 2% (that’s the only way that the NJ’s claim could hold)? > > If you said “yes” you’d be wrong. > > Margin of error is +/-3.6%. Most likely, as the last cite reports, the poll got what it wanted by being a leading questioning one. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/839 "2013-06-28T03:18:41Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Indeed that poll you are talking about is not coming from a well renown pollster and then there is the problem that one poll can only get you an outlier with that error level. Another thing he was told again and again before the election: never use a single poll as a predictor. Never. On any subject. Goldfish memory, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/840 "2013-06-28T03:52:29Z")
It’s not the only poll showing support for restrictions on abortion after the first trimester. It’s a pretty extensively polled subject. Democrats are demonstrating their ignorance here by telling Republicans to ditch their popular positions rather than their unpopular ones. In a thread about why Republicans lost, that’s very strange. If we are to believe the posters here, Republicans should become pro-choice, abandon the idea of American exceptionalism, and join the few Americans(almost all democrats) who oppose voter ID. I think even Bob Shrum would be laughing his ass off at that kind of advice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=43)