# Will The Republicans ever figure out why they lost? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224 "2012-12-26T21:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 48
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/941 "2013-07-01T04:15:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > …if he showed as much leadership… That is simply a nonsense talking point. “Oh we’d stop filibustering everything, if only Obama showed leadership!” :rolleyes: It’s meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/942 "2013-07-01T04:17:13Z")
Yeah, I get it, the new talking point since 2009 is that Presidents have no power over their own administrations. It’s expiration date: Jan. 2017. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/943 "2013-07-01T04:22:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The fact is, he could get this backlog cleared if he showed as much leadership as he did to help out his friends in the Pigford case. [Pigford v. Glickman](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigford_v._Glickman) > [@](#): > > Pigford v. Glickman (1999) was a class action lawsuit against the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA), alleging racial discrimination in its allocation of farm loans and assistance between 1983 and 1997. The lawsuit ended with a settlement on April 14, 1999, > [@](#): > > Legislative language was added to the 2008 Farm Bill to enable more farmers to bring suit and to authorize the government to negotiate additional monies for settlement. The 2008 Farm Bill in the article was enacted on May 22, 2008, long before Obama was sworn in. His only involvement was in 2010 when more money was needed to settle claims. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/944 "2013-07-01T04:25:13Z")
That was not the limit of his involvement. His administration made a decision to process claims quickly and not worry about fraud. But when vets need help, all of a sudden it’s gotta be by the book. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/945 "2013-07-01T04:39:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That was not the limit of his involvement. His administration made a decision to process claims quickly and not worry about fraud. > > But when vets need help, all of a sudden it’s gotta be by the book. [Snopes.](http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/pigford.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/946 "2013-07-01T04:40:18Z")
So, **adaher** , what do YOU think, in your own words if you would please, should be done to ensure a Republican victory for the office of the POTUS in 2016? Or, to be more in line with the OP, what lessons did the GOP learn and how do you suggest they remedy them in order to secure the presidency? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/947 "2013-07-01T04:57:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Why should I be? We’ve got several pages now of baldfaced assertions that Republicans want to suppress the votes of brown people, so it would be pretty rich to get upset about the just as far accusation that Democrats want to suppress military votes. Well, the difference between the two claims is that republicans have been strongly backing legislature that would actually suppress the vote of minorities, the young, and the poor, demonstrably so, with effectively _no_ benefit (despite searching for _10 years_ for evidence of said benefit), whereas there have been absolutely no attempts by democrats to stop the military from voting. There was that one story in Ohio, but it was shown to be bullshit _incredibly_ fast - yet another incredibly stupid lie. So in short, the difference between assertions that republicans want to suppress various groups in voting and that democrats want to suppress military votes is _evidence_. _Evidence evidence evidence evidence evidence._ We have it, you don’t. SPEAKING OF WHICH. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Which reminds me, you never answered my question. The analogy to voter ID when talking about absentee ballots is notarization. What are your feelings on that? Especially considering that absentee voter fraud is bother easier to perform and easier to get away with, and by all measures more common than in-person voter fraud. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/948 "2013-07-01T05:14:28Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > So, **adaher** , what do YOU think, in your own words if you would please, should be done to ensure a Republican victory for the office of the POTUS in 2016? > Or, to be more in line with the OP, what lessons did the GOP learn and how do you suggest they remedy them in order to secure the presidency? The Republicans need to be “kindler and gentler” to quote an old Republican President, and more optimistic, to reference an even older one. Again, the platform simply is not a problem, because if it was, Democrats would focus their attacks on it rather than try to “me too” it. Instead, they focus on gaffes and identity politics. The other thing the Republicans need to learn is simply how to govern. The Republicans didn’t lose in 2006, 2008, and 2012 because of demographics. They lost because of George Bush and the corrupt Republican Congress of the time. The Republicans need to elevate their better governors in 2016, like Christie, Walker, and Jindal. If the Republicans govern well, they will win. It’s really not any more complicated than that. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/949 "2013-07-01T05:18:35Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Well, the difference between the two claims is that republicans have been strongly backing legislature that would actually suppress the vote of minorities, the young, and the poor, demonstrably so, with effectively _no_ benefit (despite searching for _10 years_ for evidence of said benefit), whereas there have been absolutely no attempts by democrats to stop the military from voting. There was that one story in Ohio, but it was shown to be bullshit _incredibly_ fast - yet another incredibly stupid lie. > > So in short, the difference between assertions that republicans want to suppress various groups in voting and that democrats want to suppress military votes is _evidence_. _Evidence evidence evidence evidence evidence._ We have it, you don’t. > > SPEAKING OF WHICH. False. There was pretty solid evidence of military vote suppression in 2012: > **[Campaigns Spar Over Military Absentee Ballots](https://www.military.com/daily-news/2012/08/08/campaigns-spar-over-military-absentee-ballots.html)** > > Absentee military ballots have the spotlight as analysts expect a tight presidential election in which military voters could sway races in key battleground states. Even as state election officials across the U.S. have noticed a rise in military voting, a disturbing trend has appeared. The rate active-duty military voters who reported not receiving a requested absentee ballot almost doubled from 16 percent in 2008 to 29 percent in 2010, according to a survey done by the Defense Department’s Federal Voter Assistance Program (FVAP). And in Illinois, they just “forgot” to send military ballots out: [http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10/25/military-vote-question-doj-gives-illinois-pass-act-advocacy-group-warns/](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10/25/military-vote-question-doj-gives-illinois-pass-act-advocacy-group-warns/) Military voters from the land of Lincoln could be shut out of the midterm election after the Justice Department reached an agreement with Illinois that gave the state “a pass” for violating federal election law, an advocacy group warned Monday. The Justice Department hammered out the court agreement Friday addressing the failure of 35 Illinois counties to send military and overseas absentee ballots 45 days before the election – a requirement of the MOVE Act. The agreement gave voters from six of those counties a few extra days to send back their ballots but did not specifically address the other 29 counties. Eric Eversole, a former Justice voting section attorney who runs the nonprofit Military Voter Protection Project, told [FoxNews.com](http://FoxNews.com) the deal effectively lets wayward Illinois election officials off the hook and does little to ensure the state’s military voters get their ballots in time. “For at least 29 counties, there were absolutely no consequences,” he said. “Illinois is precisely the reason why you can’t wait until a week before the election to try and resolve a clear violation of military voting rights.” For some overseas military voters, he said, “it might not get there.” The Illinois agreement was the final deal struck by the Justice Department to address states’ failure to send their ballots out in time. While agreements with other states had tougher provisions compelling them to send out more express ballots and extending the deadline to receive them by many more days, Eversole’s group said the Illinois decree gave “no meaningful relief” to military voters. Read more: [http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10/25/military-vote-question-doj-gives-illinois-pass-act-advocacy-group-warns/#ixzz2Xlgg3vr9](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10/25/military-vote-question-doj-gives-illinois-pass-act-advocacy-group-warns/#ixzz2Xlgg3vr9) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/950 "2013-07-01T05:26:51Z")
You left something out. [http://www.elections.il.gov/votinginformation/military.aspx](http://www.elections.il.gov/votinginformation/military.aspx) > [@](#): > > ``` > On 10/25/2010 the Illinois State Board of Elections announced an extension of the deadline for accepting absentee ballots from military and US citizens living overseas in several Illinois counties for the November 2, 2010 General Election. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/951 "2013-07-01T05:31:58Z")
There were 35 counties in Illinois who sent out late military ballots. As you can see [here](http://elections.nytimes.com/2010/results/illinois), almost all counties voted Republican. So it was almost all Republican controlled counties who failed the military voters. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/952 "2013-07-01T05:48:29Z")
OK, so we start from Obama suppressing the votes of veterans. The evidence of this is to be found in the disgraceful clueless fumbling with veteran’s records, which is Obama’s fault because he hates veterans for voting against him. OK, got it. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/953 "2013-07-01T05:49:32Z")
Sure, they get bad publicity, they take a few steps. Most of the time there is little or no publicity when military voters get disenfranchised. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/954 "2013-07-01T06:03:35Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > There were 35 counties in Illinois who sent out late military ballots. As you can see [here](http://elections.nytimes.com/2010/results/illinois), almost all counties voted Republican. So it was almost all Republican controlled counties who failed the military voters. > [@adaher](#): > > Sure, they get bad publicity, they take a few steps. **Most of the time there is little or no publicity when military voters get disenfranchised.** By Republicans. As not covered by Fox News. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/955 "2013-07-01T06:15:44Z")
You assume that just because a county voted REpublican, that government union workers in those counties are also rooting for Republicans. In fact, they have more incentive to suppress military voters there than in bluer districts. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/956 "2013-07-01T06:21:30Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You assume that just because a county voted REpublican, that government union workers in those counties are also rooting for Republicans. In fact, they have more incentive to suppress military voters there than in bluer districts. So tell us how they managed to co-ordinate this across that many counties with no one getting wind of it. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/957 "2013-07-01T06:28:03Z")
Tell me how so many counties can be incompetent in a way that just happens to benefit the party government workers favor. They sure get those voter cards out to the people ACORN registers in a hurry. Even if the person doesn’t exist. But again, with anything having to do with the military, all of a sudden Democrats become paragons of good government. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/958 "2013-07-01T06:36:12Z")
ACORN closed down in March, 2010. For your information, they reported the phony registrations as required. They were not allowed by law to refuse the forms. [ACORN](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Community_Organizations_for_Reform_Now) > [@](#): > > ACORN received significant negative publicity in the wake of the 2009 production and publication of videos, which were later found to be partially falsified and selectively edited,[9] by two conservative activists, James O’Keefe and Hannah Giles. The activists used hidden camera recordings to portray low-level ACORN employees as engaging in criminal activity, apparently advising them on how to hide prostitution activities and avoid taxes. > [@](#): > > Following the publication of the videos and withdrawal of funding, four different independent investigations by various state and city Attorneys General and the GAO released in 2009 and 2010 cleared ACORN, finding its employees had not engaged in criminal activities and that the organization had managed its federal funding appropriately, and calling the videos deceptively and selectively edited to present the workers in the worst possible light. > [@](#): > > \*\*As required by law in most states, ACORN must submit all registration forms collected by its workers, including those flagged by ACORN as incomplete or suspicious. \*\*Fraudulent voter registrations are investigated at local, state, and federal levels, and have sometimes resulted in criminal convictions for ACORN employees. ACORN has fired employees for fraudulent registration practices and turned them over to authorities. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/959 "2013-07-01T07:09:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The big backlog in processing vets benefits. We already know Bush sucked, that’s why he left office with a 28% approval rating and brought down John McCain with him. Obama’s headed for a similar fate. > > [USA TODAY](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/11/va-veterans-benefits-backlog-ptsd-soldiers/2384429/) > > Notice though how the President made sure that Pigford claims were addressed with dispatch. Groups that voted for him get attention, those that didn’t get to rot. Reward friends, punish enemies. He even said it. > [@runner pat](#): > > [White House asks for 13.6% increase in VA funding.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2013/04/05/white-house-proposing-large-increase-in-va-funding-to-cut-backlog/) > [@adaher](#): > > The funding isn’t the issue. Congress has granted all funding increases, 40% since OBama took office. > > The fact is, he could get this backlog cleared if he showed as much leadership as he did to help out his friends in the Pigford case. > > Asking for yet more money isn’t leadership. That’s just what Democrats do: they throw money at problems and call it a day. But when Democrats really want to get things done, they actually do them. From your own cite, **adaher** : > [@](#): > > The VA under Obama said it inherited a system unable to process a new wave of disability claims and is working to reform it. Shinseki says he expected an increase when he made the claims process more accessible to Vietnam veterans and those with PTSD, but he did not anticipate how much would flow from those actions. > [@](#): > > About 851,000 veterans await answers on pending compensation claims for wounds, illnesses or injuries incurred during their service. Although two out of three have been waiting more than 125 days, the backlog has shrunk slightly in recent months. > [@](#): > > Today, there are glimmers of hope. The number of pending claims has fallen by 44,000 since a peak in late March and those taking more than 125 days by about 64,000, VA data show. Diana Rubens, a deputy undersecretary overseeing claims offices, predicts the backlog will keep shrinking. What was your complaint about the VA situation again? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/960 "2013-07-01T09:13:44Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > What was your complaint about the VA situation again? :dubious: That the facts of the matter aren’t making Obama look bad enough, dammit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=47) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=49)