# Will The Republicans ever figure out why they lost? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224 "2012-12-26T21:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 49
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/961 "2013-07-01T09:19:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > False. There was pretty solid evidence of military vote suppression in 2012: > > [Campaigns Spar Over Military Absentee Ballots](http://www.military.com/daily-news/2012/08/08/campaigns-spar-over-military-absentee-ballots.html) > > Even as state election officials across the U.S. have noticed a rise in military voting, a disturbing trend has appeared. The rate active-duty military voters who reported not receiving a requested absentee ballot almost doubled from 16 percent in 2008 to 29 percent in 2010, according to a survey done by the Defense Department’s Federal Voter Assistance Program (FVAP). Which is interesting but not evidence of anything more than bureaucratic snafus, if that. The figures [are real](http://www.fvap.gov/global/news/2011news/nr26-2011.html), but the organization doesn’t seem to be making a big deal out of it. And let’s be honest - in 2008, there was already 17%, meaning that such issues are not unheard of. What could have caused the increase? Hmm… maybe “MILITARY VOTER PARTICIPATION INCREASED 21% IN 2010 ELECTION” is a bit of a clue as to why the system had considerably more failures? You know, that maybe an increase of _one fifth_ would cause a system like this to have a little more trouble? But as said at the beginning, this is really not evidence of anything more than bureaucratic > [@](#): > > And in Illinois, they just “forgot” to send military ballots out: > > [http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10/25/military-vote-question-doj-gives-illinois-pass-act-advocacy-group-warns/](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10/25/military-vote-question-doj-gives-illinois-pass-act-advocacy-group-warns/) > > Military voters from the land of Lincoln could be shut out of the midterm election after the Justice Department reached an agreement with Illinois that gave the state “a pass” for violating federal election law, an advocacy group warned Monday. > > The Justice Department hammered out the court agreement Friday addressing the failure of 35 Illinois counties to send military and overseas absentee ballots 45 days before the election – a requirement of the MOVE Act. The agreement gave voters from six of those counties a few extra days to send back their ballots but did not specifically address the other 29 counties. > > Eric Eversole, a former Justice voting section attorney who runs the nonprofit Military Voter Protection Project, told [FoxNews.com](http://FoxNews.com) the deal effectively lets wayward Illinois election officials off the hook and does little to ensure the state’s military voters get their ballots in time. > > “For at least 29 counties, there were absolutely no consequences,” he said. “Illinois is precisely the reason why you can’t wait until a week before the election to try and resolve a clear violation of military voting rights.” > > For some overseas military voters, he said, “it might not get there.” > > The Illinois agreement was the final deal struck by the Justice Department to address states’ failure to send their ballots out in time. While agreements with other states had tougher provisions compelling them to send out more express ballots and extending the deadline to receive them by many more days, Eversole’s group said the Illinois decree gave “no meaningful relief” to military voters. Okay, first off, the fact that the best source you could find was Fox News is already a gigantic red flag. Secondly, the issue was dealt with by _extending the deadline_ significantly. For an attempt to suppress the military vote, this sure did do everything possible to ensure that those votes would be counted. :rolleyes: I’m sorry, but the scandal is even more fake than the claims that extending the same privileges the military had to everyone else was “suppressing the military vote” in Ohio. And you _still_ haven’t answered my question - what’s your opinion on notarizing absentee ballots, given that that’s essentially the only way to make them fraud-proof (akin to voter ID) and that fraud is both easier and more common with them? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/962 "2013-07-01T09:23:09Z")
That would be a good idea. Another good idea would be to restore absentee ballots to their original intent, which is a way for people unable to reach their polling place due to disability or being out of town to vote. In many states it’s now just de facto ballot by mail. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/963 "2013-07-01T09:25:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That would be a good idea. Another good idea would be to restore absentee ballots to their original intent, which is a way for people unable to reach their polling place due to disability or being out of town to vote. In many states it’s now just de facto ballot by mail. And your foolproof and cost-effective method for ascertaining whether people will be genuinely out of town on polling day is…? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/964 "2013-07-01T09:29:07Z")
They don’t need to prove it, just go back to the old system where they have to explain why they need a ballot rather than just issuing it no questions asked. BTW, serious question, why is it requiring ID to vote an attempt to disenfranchise minorities, but requiring ID in all other situations is not? Isn’t requring ID to get a job discriminatory? Isn’t requiring it to board a plane also discriminatory? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/965 "2013-07-01T09:49:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That would be a good idea. Well at least you have _consistently_ terrible ideas. > [@adaher](#): > > BTW, serious question, why is it requiring ID to vote an attempt to disenfranchise minorities, but requiring ID in all other situations is not? Isn’t requring ID to get a job discriminatory? Isn’t requiring it to board a plane also discriminatory? Because in other, similar situations, the liability for fraud is actually _present_, and the damage is palpable (please don’t make me explain why it’s less damaging to have one fraudulent vote cast than to have a person take out funds from the wrong bank account). What’s more, there’s not a legal requirement for ID to get a job (merely a legitimate SSN), and having a job is not a fundamental right in a democracy. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/966 "2013-07-01T09:55:22Z")
So it is discriminatory, it’s just necessary. Except for elections. Fortunately the courts disagree with your reasoning and only strike down ID laws that actually create an undue burden. And actually you do need ID to get a job, I know, because we got threatened with fines for not having it as part of the I-9 form. Gotta have a photocopy of every employee’s ID, as well as SS card. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/967 "2013-07-01T10:28:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > BTW, serious question, why is it requiring ID to vote an attempt to disenfranchise minorities, but requiring ID in all other situations is not? Isn’t requring ID to get a job discriminatory? Isn’t requiring it to board a plane also discriminatory? Because you don’t have a constitutional right to get a job or board a plane. Also, because requiring an ID to board a plane wasn’t instituted with the intent to steal elections for Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/968 "2013-07-01T10:58:48Z")
You do, however, have a constitutional right to petition your representatives, something you aren’t allowed to do without presenting ID. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/969 "2013-07-01T11:05:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They don’t need to prove it, just go back to the old system where they have to explain why they need a ballot rather than just issuing it no questions asked. And what purpose would this serve? Making people write a paragraph on “Why I Need An Absentee Ballot”, a paragraph that will make no difference to what the government does, is a ridiculous make-work solution. And if you’re proposing that some poor government schlub actually read the explanations and decide whether or not the person deserves an absentee ballot, you’re making the process ridiculously inefficient, more expensive and more arbitrary for no added benefit. Just issuing the ballot no-questions-asked is a far better option. > [@](#): > > BTW, serious question, why is it requiring ID to vote an attempt to disenfranchise minorities, but requiring ID in all other situations is not? This has been explained to you umpteen times already. Will one more time do the trick? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/970 "2013-07-01T11:26:48Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You do, however, have a constitutional right to petition your representatives, something you aren’t allowed to do without presenting ID. Considering where you pulled this one out of, I don’t want to touch it. What on earth are you talking about? Is it now a requirement to show ID to mail a letter? To participate in a town hall meeting? To pick up the phone and call my congressman? To email my senators? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/971 "2013-07-01T13:23:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > False. There was pretty solid evidence of military vote suppression in 2012: > > [Campaigns Spar Over Military Absentee Ballots](http://www.military.com/daily-news/2012/08/08/campaigns-spar-over-military-absentee-ballots.html) > > Even as state election officials across the U.S. have noticed a rise in military voting, a disturbing trend has appeared. The rate active-duty military voters who reported not receiving a requested absentee ballot almost doubled from 16 percent in 2008 to 29 percent in 2010, according to a survey done by the Defense Department’s Federal Voter Assistance Program (FVAP). And there were problems in the 2008 election, going all the way back to 2000. [Washington Times](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jul/20/military-voters-soon-to-be-disenfranchised-again/) > [@](#): > > By most accounts, the 2008 presidential election was a disaster for military voters. Thousands of them were disenfranchised when their absentee ballots were sent to wrong addresses, lost in the mail or mailed too close to the election for the ballot to be returned. To make matters worse, thousands of ballots were rejected by local election officials because the ballot - through no fault of the military voter - arrived after the election deadline. > > **Much of this disaster could have been avoided by the Voting Section of the Justice Department, and without swift action, the Voting Section will cause a similar disaster in 2010** despite congressional efforts to fix the problem. > [@](#): > > As most Americans discovered during the 2000 election, military voters face significant hurdles when voting because of the transitory nature of military life and the delays associated with delivering absentee ballots, especially to war zones. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/972 "2013-07-01T13:49:28Z")
Here’s a tip: if you want to be taken seriously, don’t quote the Washington Times. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/973 "2013-07-01T14:55:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Republicans need to be “kindler and gentler” to quote an old Republican President, and more optimistic, to reference an even older one. Again, the platform simply is not a problem, because if it was, Democrats would focus their attacks on it rather than try to “me too” it. Instead, they focus on gaffes and identity politics. > > The other thing the Republicans need to learn is simply how to govern. The Republicans didn’t lose in 2006, 2008, and 2012 because of demographics. They lost because of George Bush and the corrupt Republican Congress of the time. The Republicans need to elevate their better governors in 2016, like Christie, Walker, and Jindal. > > If the Republicans govern well, they will win. It’s really not any more complicated than that. Well spoken. Thank you. Do you have suggestions on who the GOP should nominate for the 2016 presidential election? Is it limited to Christie, Walker and Jindal? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/974 "2013-07-01T15:40:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They sure get those voter cards out to the people ACORN registers in a hurry. Even if the person doesn’t exist. Actually, that never happened. The voter cards, I mean. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/975 "2013-07-01T15:41:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That would be a good idea. Another good idea would be to restore absentee ballots to their original intent, which is a way for people unable to reach their polling place due to disability or being out of town to vote. In many states it’s now just de facto ballot by mail. What’s wrong with that as such? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/976 "2013-07-01T15:43:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Republicans need to elevate their better governors in 2016, like Christie, Walker, and Jindal. You . . . _ahem_ :o \* . . . well, certainly you don’t mean [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=694322) Jindal, do you?! Nor [this](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bobby_Jindal#Political_and_social_views) one?! ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/977 "2013-07-01T15:48:45Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What’s wrong with that as such? Voters on his side all have cars and drivers licenses and jobs with working hours that allow them to get to the polls. Also, his voters all vote in precincts where there are plenty of machines and little waiting in line, unlike _those_ people. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/978 "2013-07-01T16:25:09Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > This has been explained to you umpteen times already. Will one more time do the trick? Our friend has shown he has little interest in understanding things that don’t fall in line with what he believes. I would suggest one go back and look at his endless denials about what the polls said prior to the 2012 election. Facts meant nothing then because an oversampling of Democrats in all the polls explained things in a way that reinforced what was believed, as well as what Fox News was saying. The need to cling to the belief that voter i.d. is good and just and desperately needed is more important than what any annoyingly contrary facts may show. The pattern is pretty clear AFAICT. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > What on earth are you talking about? Don’t hold your breath waiting for an explanation that is actually grounded in the real world. Again, what our friend believes is what reality actually is, not what the facts may show. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/979 "2013-07-01T23:54:40Z")
So, I’ve read the whole thread and the answer appears to be… no. They won’t. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/980 "2013-07-02T00:57:08Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > So, I’ve read the whole thread and the answer appears to be… no. They won’t. But they can still win. Don’t ever forget that. The Pubs still hold the House and a majority, I believe, of state legislatures and governorships. They have very thoroughly entrenched every position they hold, and they still have one massive base they can turn out, and captive media outlets, and institutional connections, and think-tanks, and boardrooms of corporate execs on their side, and a metric shitload of donor-cash to draw on. They don’t have to learn anything. They can still win. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=48) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=50)