# Will The Republicans ever figure out why they lost? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224 "2012-12-26T21:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1081 "2013-07-04T23:35:50Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Let me tell you a little anecdotal story. \ In all seriousness, this anecdote tells us (or me, anyway) a lot about why you think the way you think. Putting the snark aside, this is my view of the morality of the social safety net: in my opinion, the liberal/Democratic view of the social safety net does result in some number of people taking advantage of benefits in order to not have to work. I believe that this percentage is not very large- that most people who benefit from government programs like welfare and food stamps are decent people who are in a temporary tough situation (whether due to bad luck or bad decisions) that people of more privilege can absorb without having to rely on government programs. When the teenage son gets into legal trouble, middle and upper class families have a much better chance of putting their son back on the right path- they can hire lawyers, therapists, one parent may have the free time, etc. Middle and upper class families “get away” with a lot of poor decisions that can nigh-permanently sink a low income family into destitution. So I think the Republican vision would result in a lot greater misery among poor people- like the rampant poverty of Dickens’ London. The most talented and hardworking among the poor would still manage to succeed- as they always have. But many decent, average (or less) folks would be left behind- with no hope of a better life. Especially children. I think the Republican economic vision leaves poor children especially vulnerable- for all the exploitation and other bad things that happen, I think this would be multiplied under conservative economic principles. The Democratic vision of social welfare is far from perfect, but I believe it results in far less misery than the Republican vision. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1082 "2013-07-05T00:25:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In all seriousness, this anecdote tells us (or me, anyway) a lot about why you think the way you think. Putting the snark aside, this is my view of the morality of the social safety net: in my opinion, the liberal/Democratic view of the social safety net does result in some number of people taking advantage of benefits in order to not have to work. I believe that this percentage is not very large- that most people who benefit from government programs like welfare and food stamps are decent people who are in a temporary tough situation (whether due to bad luck or bad decisions) that people of more privilege can absorb without having to rely on government programs. When the teenage son gets into legal trouble, middle and upper class families have a much better chance of putting their son back on the right path- they can hire lawyers, therapists, one parent may have the free time, etc. Middle and upper class families “get away” with a lot of poor decisions that can nigh-permanently sink a low income family into destitution. > > So I think the Republican vision would result in a lot greater misery among poor people- like the rampant poverty of Dickens’ London. The most talented and hardworking among the poor would still manage to succeed- as they always have. But many decent, average (or less) folks would be left behind- with no hope of a better life. Especially children. I think the Republican economic vision leaves poor children especially vulnerable- for all the exploitation and other bad things that happen, I think this would be multiplied under conservative economic principles. > > The Democratic vision of social welfare is far from perfect, but I believe it results in far less misery than the Republican vision. And I know you’re wrong. The Democratic model simply creates dependents who rely on the state and thusly vote for those people who will continue to provide for them. Right now (well, not right now, it’s 8 PM) I could get in my car, drive over to the east side of 13th Street in the Goldsboro (basically, the “bad” side) and take pictures of what could only be described as the Democratic Mecca; now boarded up projects, dilapidated houses and people who do nothing all day but sit outside playing dominos, cards, smoking or whatever else they want yet vote straight Democratic . They don’t work because they don’t have to, and they vote Democratic so they ensure they never will have to (I’d be shocked if you could find anyone around that area who votes Republican). And that’s the bottom line. People seek out work and try to better themselves when they have to, and don’t when they don’t have to. Anyone who says differently doesn’t know what they’re talking about, and more than likely live in some middle to upper middle class neighborhood their whole lives and have yet to experience reality. All in all, it is what it is. It’s usually said by the more left leaning of people that Republicans don’t care about the poor. The thing is, that’s not true. Republicans care far more about the poor to the point where they don’t try to keep people in poverty. Democrats, on the other land, love the poor so much, they do their best to keep them in poverty. There’s a difference between a social safety net, which Republicans don’t have a problem with, a social safety house, which Democrats love. It’s one thing to be on welfare for a few months and get off; it’s an entirely different story to not only live on welfare, but to have your children, your grandchildren and your great grandchildren live on welfare. It’s ironic to the umpteenth degree. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1083 "2013-07-05T00:37:10Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Democrats, on the other land, love the poor so much, they do their best to keep them in poverty. There’s a difference between a social safety net, which Republicans don’t have a problem with, a social safety house, which Democrats love. It’s one thing to be on welfare for a few months and get off; it’s an entirely different story to not only live on welfare, but to have your children, your grandchildren and your great grandchildren live on welfare. 1980 called; it wants its lunacy back. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1084 "2013-07-05T00:42:30Z")
Naw, just the Romney campaign - OMG is parroting the “47 percent are takers” line, that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1085 "2013-07-05T00:46:22Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > All in all, it is what it is. It’s usually said by the more left leaning of people that Republicans don’t care about the poor. **The thing is, that’s not true. Republicans care far more about the poor to the point where they don’t try to keep people in poverty.** Democrats, on the other land, love the poor so much, they do their best to keep them in poverty. There’s a difference between a social safety net, which Republicans don’t have a problem with, a social safety house, which Democrats love. It’s one thing to be on welfare for a few months and get off; it’s an entirely different story to not only live on welfare, but to have your children, your grandchildren and your great grandchildren live on welfare. > > It’s ironic to the umpteenth degree. And yet, who squeals like a stuck pig at any hint of raising the minimum wage. Who loves the idea of eliminating benefits and cutting staff or hours in the name of wringing out every penny of profit possible? Who offshores jobs? Last I looked, there’s appx. 14 million off work and only 3.5 million jobs. What do you do with the extra workers even if all jobs are filled? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1086 "2013-07-05T00:50:08Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > And I know you’re wrong. The Democratic model simply creates dependents who rely on the state and thusly vote for those people who will continue to provide for them. Funny, 'cause I know you’re wrong too. > [@](#): > > All in all, it is what it is. It’s usually said by the more left leaning of people that Republicans don’t care about the poor. The thing is, that’s not true. Republicans care far more about the poor to the point where they don’t try to keep people in poverty. Democrats, on the other land, love the poor so much, they do their best to keep them in poverty. I know you’re wrong here too. If I accepted your assumptions, I’d be a Republican too. And if you accepted mine, you’d be a Democrat. When you talk about what Democrats support, I don’t know who you’re talking about- certainly not me or the Democrats I know. I don’t think Republicans are evil or racist (though some invariably are, just like some Democrats), I just think they’re very wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1087 "2013-07-05T16:04:00Z")
**OMG** : The fact is that you cannot find any such examples of the GOP trying to drum up support among Whites by creating a “White vs. Black” culture. What, **none** of the cites provided indicated anything of the sort to you? Clearly no point in citing _anything_ for you. None so blind, and all that. Better luck with your next set of electoral predictions. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1088 "2013-07-05T17:06:57Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > … sit outside playing dominos, cards, smoking or whatever else they want yet vote straight Democratic . They don’t work because they don’t have to, and they vote Democratic so they ensure they never will have to > > … Republicans care far more about the poor to the point where they don’t try to keep people in poverty. Democrats, on the other land, love the poor so much, they do their best to keep them in poverty. Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1089 "2013-07-05T17:11:57Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > You said-- and this is a direct quote-- that the “Republicans want to curbstomp minorities” That’s not a direct quote - it’s a paraphrase. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1090 "2013-07-05T17:13:05Z")
He gets so much else wrong, you expected him to get that right? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1091 "2013-07-05T17:20:33Z")
Hey, one misused phrase is a tragedy. Pages and pages of jumbled dogma are a statistic. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1092 "2013-07-05T21:23:44Z")
I’m a middle-aged white guy. Liberal in most regards, but I don’t care for affirmative action (too broad, prefer something based on non-racial criteria like if parents went to college) and I’d like to have welfare recipients required to work (even if it’s cleaning the parks) or go to school. My racism meter even pegs a little when I hear a car go by with the rumbling bass of rap blaring out of it. But I would NEVER vote for the Republicans. They just believe in the most incredibly stupid things: - Supply side economics/tax cuts raise revenue - Creationism - Requiring prayer and posting the 10 commandments in school - Thinking that there is a danger of Sharia law being adopted - Rape “shuts things down, down there” - Obama was born in Kenya and is a secret Muslim It’s a party of troglodytes in a echo chamber egging each other on to see who can say the most stupid thing. The Republicans embody every single value I loathe. If the Democrats adopted a platform that allowed black people open season on whites every June-teenth I still wouldn’t become a Republican; I’d join a third party instead. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1093 "2013-07-05T22:10:38Z")
[This _NYT Magazine_ article](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/magazine/can-the-republicans-be-saved-from-obsolescence.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0) from February is mostly about how the Obama team in 2012 completely outclassed the Romney team in effective use of information technology. But the most telling paragraph is this: > [@](#): > > But the problem for the G.O.P. extends well beyond its flawed candidate and his flawed operation. The unnerving truth, which the Red Edge team and other younger conservatives worry that their leaders have yet to appreciate, is that the Republican Party’s technological deficiencies barely begin to explain why the G.O.P. has lost the popular vote in five of the last six presidential elections. The party brand — which is to say, its message and its messengers — has become practically abhorrent to emerging demographic groups like Latinos and African-Americans, not to mention an entire generation of young voters. As one of the party’s most highly respected strategists told me: “It ought to concern people that the most Republican part of the electorate under Ronald Reagan were 18-to-29-year-olds. And today, people I know who are under 40 are embarrassed to say they’re Republicans. They’re embarrassed! They get harassed for it, the same way we used to give liberals a hard time.” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1094 "2013-07-06T00:08:03Z")
Focusing on race probably isn’t the best way for Republicans to win. rather, they should focus on youth, women, and the middle class. The best way to win more minority voters is to make more middle class and wealthy minorities. African-Americans are the only truly Democratic racial constituency. Most of the partisanship of the Hispanic vote breaks down when you divide by income: Hispanics tend to vote Democrat because there are more poor Hispanics. There’s still a partisan gap, but it’s more like 20 points rather than 40. Solution: make more existing Hispanics rich, and stop importing poor Hispanics. Rather, import more skilled Hispanics. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1095 "2013-07-06T00:15:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Focusing on race probably isn’t the best way for Republicans to win. rather, they should focus on youth, women, and the middle class. The best way to win more minority voters is to make more middle class and wealthy minorities. African-Americans are the only truly Democratic racial constituency. Most of the partisanship of the Hispanic vote breaks down when you divide by income: Hispanics tend to vote Democrat because there are more poor Hispanics. There’s still a partisan gap, but it’s more like 20 points rather than 40. > > Solution: make more existing Hispanics rich, and stop importing poor Hispanics. Rather, import more skilled Hispanics. That would require adopting different economic policies, which would be a much bigger change than simply stop being racist. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1096 "2013-07-06T00:19:25Z")
Hush, dear, he is talking redistribution of wealth. Don’t interrupt. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1097 "2013-07-06T00:22:42Z")
Well, they do need to jettison supply side once and for all in favor of the more sensible economic policies of the Coolidge administration: cut spending, then cut taxes. We know it works because it still works at the state level, where balanced budget laws force Republicans to govern correctly. And the Republicans are not racist. If they have to figure out they are racist, which seems to be the #1 theory on this thread, then they aren’t racist. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1098 "2013-07-06T01:48:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And the Republicans are not racist. If they have to figure out they are racist, which seems to be the #1 theory on this thread, then they aren’t racist. It’s not so much that Republicans are racist as it is that racists are Republicans. And the reason that racists are Republicans is that the Republicans went after them at the same time the northern Democrats were trying to dump them. Now the Republicans are stuck with them. It’s like you invited your idiot brother in-law to a party and he invited all his idiot friends and all of a sudden they outnumber you and start playing Achey Breaky Heart instead of your collection of vintage vinyl blues records. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1099 "2013-07-06T01:56:35Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > It’s not so much that Republicans are racist as it is that racists are Republicans. And the reason that racists are Republicans is that the Republicans went after them at the same time the northern Democrats were trying to dump them. Now the Republicans are stuck with them. It’s like you invited your idiot brother in-law to a party and he invited all his idiot friends and all of a sudden they outnumber you and start playing Achey Breaky Heart instead of your collection of vintage vinyl blues records. But, **fumster**! That’s the lying Democrat revisionist version of history! In reality, the noble Republicans simply offered the aggrieved white citizens of the South a safe haven, a berth in the storm of Negro aggression after the Democrats turned their coats against the true Americans! ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1100 "2013-07-06T02:29:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And the Republicans are not racist. If they have to figure out they are racist, which seems to be the #1 theory on this thread, then they aren’t racist. With a few exceptions (mostly here in this thread), Republicans don’t need to figure out that they are racist. They know that. What they need to figure out is that racism and its attendant policies are costing them Presidential elections and then deal with that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=56)