# Will The Republicans ever figure out why they lost? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224 "2012-12-26T21:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 61
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1201 "2013-07-07T06:14:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Probably not anymore, but in his heyday he was extremely influential in a way not seen since Father Coughlin. THERE’S a role model to emulate… ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1202 "2013-07-07T06:25:41Z")
In one way he is a model to emulate, and liberals have tried very hard to emulate him: he knows how to persuade. Democrats proudly pat themselves on the back for having a more intellectual outlook, but when it comes to politics, it’s conservatives who seek to make the intellectual pitch, selling a vision that started with the founders. Democrats go more for the gut, appealing to rank economic interests and other items on the special interest wishlist. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1203 "2013-07-07T07:49:40Z")
So, what you’ve been doing here, that’s all about being persuasive, and selling the vision of our Founding Fathers. Would that, by any chance, be the vision about not letting people vote who had no property? Anyway, whatever, its you, being intellectual and persuasive. How’s that working out for you, so far? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1204 "2013-07-07T07:52:52Z")
The vision of the foundering fathers is limited government, a case which can only appeal to the average person intellectually. Democrats, on the other hand, get down to brass tacks. This is what we’re going to give you, and someone else will pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1205 "2013-07-07T08:05:56Z")
Well, you got me there, podnuh. No question, if my choices are limited government or unlimited government, its gonna be limited every time. So, those are the only two, then? Damn. You sure that’s all? Well, I guess we’re just boned. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1206 "2013-07-07T08:11:05Z")
Many liberals don’t actually believe in limited government, and certainly don’t believe in federalism. Der Trihs actually went so far as to say that states are mere administrative districts! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1207 "2013-07-07T08:19:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Probably not anymore, but in his heyday he was extremely influential in a way not seen since Father Coughlin. Father Coughlin failed utterly in all his political goals and his career was followed by decades of liberal ascendancy. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1208 "2013-07-07T08:22:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > In one way he is a model to emulate, and liberals have tried very hard to emulate him: he knows how to persuade. _sigh_[Again:](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/magazine/can-the-republicans-be-saved-from-obsolescence.html?pagewanted=all&_r=2&) > [@](#): > > Of course, many conservatives like their brand just the way it is, regardless of what century it seems to belong to. Anderson did not relish a tug of war over the party’s identity between them and more open-minded Republicans. She talked to me about Jon Huntsman, the presidential candidate whose positions on climate change and social issues she admired, and the unseemly spectacle of his denigrating the far right. To prosper, the party should not have to eat its own, she maintained. Still, to hear her focus-group subjects tell it, the voice of today’s G.O.P. is repellent to young voters. Can that voice, belonging to the party’s most fevered members, still be accommodated even as young Republicans seek to bring their party into the modern era? > > This conundrum has been a frequent postelection topic as youthful conservative dissidents huddle in taverns and homes and — among friends, in the manner of early-20th-century Bolsheviks — proceed to speak the unspeakable about the ruling elite. I sat in on one such gathering on a Saturday evening in early February — convened at a Russian bar in Midtown Manhattan, over Baltika beers. The group of a half-dozen or so conservative pundits and consultants calls itself Proximus, which is Latin for “next,” and they seem to revel in their internal disagreements. One of them argued, “Not all regulation is bad,” while another countered, “I hate all regulations, every single one of them” — including, he cheerfully admitted, minimum-wage and child-labor laws. Nonetheless, the focal point of Proximus’s mission is not policy formulation but salesmanship: how to bring new voters into the fold while remaining true to conservative principles. > > “This is a long-term play,” conceded John Goodwin, a founder of the group and former chief of staff to the outspoken conservative congressman Raúl Labrador. “This isn’t going to happen by 2014. But we want to be able to show voters that we have a diversity of opinion. Right now, Republicans have such a small number of vocal messengers. What we want to do is add more microphones and eventually drown out the others.” > > “And we can’t be afraid to call out Rush Limbaugh,” said Goodwin’s fiancée, S. E. Cupp, a New York Daily News columnist and a co-host of ”The Cycle” on MSNBC. “If we can get three Republicans on three different networks saying, ‘What Rush Limbaugh said is crazy and stupid and dangerous,’ maybe that’ll give other Republicans cover” to denounce the talk-show host as well. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1209 "2013-07-07T08:24:28Z")
Modern liberals wouldn’t have supported the revolution: [http://www.ijreview.com/2013/07/63542-bette-midler-hey-if-we-had-lost-revolutionary-war-wed-have-univesal-healthcare/](http://www.ijreview.com/2013/07/63542-bette-midler-hey-if-we-had-lost-revolutionary-war-wed-have-univesal-healthcare/) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1210 "2013-07-07T08:29:40Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Father Coughlin failed utterly in all his political goals and his career was followed by decades of liberal ascendancy. Father Coughlin wasn’t pushing an ideology, he was a rabblerouser who was at first pro FDR, then anti-FDR. The similarity between Coughlin and Limbaugh ends at their influence. Of course, Limbaugh obviously succeeded to the extent he contributed to the Republican ascendancy. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1211 "2013-07-07T08:51:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Father Coughlin wasn’t pushing an ideology, he was a rabblerouser who was at first pro FDR, then anti-FDR. The similarity between Coughlin and Limbaugh ends at their influence. > > Of course, Limbaugh obviously succeeded to the extent he contributed to the Republican ascendancy. And I’m pretty sure that Rush isn’t an anti-Semite like Coughlin. On the other hand, Rush did provide quality race-baiting during the 2008 presidential campaign. I’m sure that helped to some extent in the Republican ascendancy. Oh, my bad. The Republicans lost…shucks, maybe they’ll learn there lesson and take the gold ring in 2012. After all, Rush is no misogynist. The man respects woman; why, he’s married four of them at last count… Oops, my bad again. [Insert Title Thread Here]. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1212 "2013-07-07T08:57:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Democrats proudly pat themselves on the back for having a more intellectual outlook, but when it comes to politics, it’s conservatives who seek to make the intellectual pitch, selling a vision that started with the founders. Democrats go more for the gut, appealing to rank economic interests and other items on the special interest wishlist. Would those be the same conservatives who say that Reagan was a great president because he made people feel good about being Americans again? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1213 "2013-07-07T09:38:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Many liberals don’t actually believe in limited government, and certainly don’t believe in federalism. Be careful not to confuse or equate the two. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1214 "2013-07-07T12:20:02Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Has anyone noticed that **adaher** ’s and **OMG** ’s scenarios, like the classic description of a physics experiment, depends upon an ideal Republican Party which bears little to no resemblance to the real-world GOP they have? I could get behind putting Republican politicians in a frictionless vacuum. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1215 "2013-07-07T12:42:59Z")
Gotta rise to that bait. [XKCD on Frictionless Vacuum](http://xkcd.com/669/) On the subject of what the Republican Party needs to do it’s actually very simple. I hear a lot of talk about ‘selling the brand’ and ‘marketing’ and such but that’s pointless. The thing they need to do is examine their belief structure, figure out which ones they are willing to compromise on (which should be most, the same as the other side) and go forward. What’s killing them right now is that the politicians being elected are encouraged (through safe districts) to be as hard line as possible. There’s no need for compromise because there’s no negative feedback for not doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1216 "2013-07-07T13:49:18Z")
I dunno, adaher… it’s like to you Republicans “convince” people but Democrats “pander” to them, and if Republicans get more of the white vote it’s because their message is more appealing but if Democrats get more of the nonwhite vote it’s because of instinctive racial bias. I am not getting the impression of fair-handed evaluation, here. ---
**Author:** ![computergeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@computergeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/computergeek)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1217 "2013-07-07T15:17:17Z")
The Republicans are losing their more moderate voters like me (I’m older, white, female). As long as many of their members stay far right and uncompromising, and the Republican establishment kowtows to those folks, the party will continue to lose the more moderate members and even the more conservative ones who aren’t so far right and uncompromising. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1218 "2013-07-07T16:48:32Z")
The electoral success of Reagan has been misinterpreted by the current Republican party. Reagan had been widely dismissed as ‘too conservative’ to win a national election, and went on to not only be elected president, but re-elected in a landslide. And his VP was elected soundly. This (along with a few lesser successes, like the dog-whistle same-sex marriage referendums bringing out more GOP voters in 2004) seems to have conditioned conservaties to assume that pulling to the right will always bring out the silent conservative majority. The 2012 election proved otherwise. Conservatives who’d confidently predicted a Romney victory were stunned. More amazingly, all four pro-same-sex marriage referendums passed, something I would never have expected a few years ago. The culture of the country is changing, and will continue to change, especially on social issues like gay rights, immigration, religion in civic life and abortion. Conservatives need to acknowledge this. It amazes me how a person who describes themself as being more conservative than 90% of the country can think they’re in the majority. I know the right-wing media echo chamber makes this possible. But how can 10% of ANY quantity be the majority? I’m an indepdendent who’s voted for both Democrats and Republicans (admittedly, fewer Republicans recently) So I want there to be two viable parties - one party rule is not good, no matter which party is in power. Regarding **adaher** and **OMGABC** , I’m reminded of an episode of Bill Maher’s show in 1996, shortly before the election. All polls, and pretty much everyone on both sides, agreed that Clinton would win. But one of Maher’s guests (a writer named John Calvin Batchelor) claimed to have arcane information proving that Dole was going to win. The information was never quite clear - it had something to do with the number of state legislatures that were Republican-controlled, hinting that they could choose the electors when the electoral college voted. He also made some claim about every time those numbers held in the past, the Republicans won the White House (sort of like those World Series predictions based on who won the Army-Navy the previous year). He tried to sound ominous and dismissive as he made these dark declarations - picture Hannibal Lector on Meet the Press. At one point his defenses came down and he quipped to Maher, “If you say things with confidence, it wins people over every time”, leading Maher to observe, “So, you’re admitting that you’re full of it?” Batchelor wound up his spiel with, “All I’m telling you is, this January, Dole will be in the Oval Office”. To which another guest (TV writer Larry Gelbart) replied, “And I’m telling you, the only way that’s going to happen is if he hijacks Air Force One.” ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1219 "2013-07-07T18:01:04Z")
But, you know, when Republicans \*\*do \*\*get their hands on the levers of government, they limit spending like a boss! No one can doubt that the economy improves compared to Democratic administrations. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1220 "2013-07-07T19:29:02Z")
Having spent some time going back and re-reading this thread and checking the links provided I have to admit **adaher** and **OMGABC** have changed my mind regarding racism and the Republican Party. In fact the comments from Bachmann, Limbaugh, Romney and others really are not racist. It is terribly unfair and grossly misrepresents who the Republicans really are, namely a party of rabid bigots. It is bigotry, not racism, which motivates many of their positions. The animus they feel toward gays, women, the poor and non-Christians is as well documented as the race-baiting code words used to whip up racists who fit under the Big Umbrella of Bigotry they proudly hold so high. It has plenty of room for all the homophobes, misogynists, plutocrats, theocrats and anti-intellectuals you can shake a stick at, with plenty of room left for racists to squeeze under it. In a spirit of being honest I would encourage my fellow liberals to stop denying Republicans credit for the rainbow of bigoted attitudes they hold so dear. To reduce what is wrong with the party of Lincoln to a single dimension like racism fails to give them credit for the panoply of attitudes they cling to that most Americans find distasteful. And that’s just so unfair it makes my bleeding heart break. Meanies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=60) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=62)