# Will The Republicans ever figure out why they lost? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224 "2012-12-26T21:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 80
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1581 "2013-07-18T16:38:05Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Yep, I am. > > And I reject the notion that pay a few less dollars in taxes is going to benefit me more than social justice, a safety net, universal education, comprehensive regulation, sound infrastructure, affordable health care, sex education for all, and a healthy environment would benefit me. I would have written exactly this, were I so eloquent. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1582 "2013-07-18T16:51:42Z")
I make $44k a year, and I’d pay more in taxes. I strongly believe in supporting those who are less fortunate than me, and a small percentage of waste doesn’t change that sentiment. Stories about welfare kings and queens don’t concern me, even if they’re true, because I believe the vast majority of people on welfare do not want to be on welfare, and greatly benefit from my tax-derived support. I believe welfare is a powerful tool for supporting others, and I believe that many people on welfare are there due to reasons out of their control: the economy sucking, an illness, an inability to find work in their fields. I’m fairly certain I read somewhere that 90%+ of the people on welfare are the working poor, veterans, old people, and the disabled. Why wouldn’t I want to support them? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1583 "2013-07-18T16:56:10Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I make $44k a year, and I’d pay more in taxes. I strongly believe in supporting those who are less fortunate than me, and a small percentage of waste doesn’t change that sentiment. Stories about welfare kings and queens don’t concern me, even if they’re true, because I believe the vast majority of people on welfare do not want to be on welfare, and greatly benefit from my tax-derived support. I believe welfare is a powerful tool for supporting others, and I believe that many people on welfare are there due to reasons out of their control: the economy sucking, an illness, an inability to find work in their fields. > > I’m fairly certain I read somewhere that 90%+ of the people on welfare are the working poor, veterans, old people, and the disabled. Why wouldn’t I want to support them? Oh, look! Empathy! You might want to take a good, long look, **adaher** and **Debaser** …I know neither of you gets this close to empathy very often. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1584 "2013-07-18T16:57:56Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I’m fairly certain I read somewhere that 90%+ of the people on welfare are the working poor, veterans, old people, and the disabled. Why wouldn’t I want to support them? Because freeeeedooom!!! Or something like that. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1585 "2013-07-18T17:17:48Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I’m fairly certain I read somewhere that 90%+ of the people on welfare are the working poor, veterans, old people, and the disabled. Why wouldn’t I want to support them? Because some of those people may be black, and that simply cannot be allowed …I mean, um, yeah, Freedom! ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1586 "2013-07-18T18:20:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The top 5% do vote more Republican than Democrat, but Democrats are doing better among that group than in the past. If they lose that group by more, they lose elections. I think what kills any party who wants to raise taxes on the 1% or 5% isn’t the votes that are lost, but the campaign donations that would be lost. That would have a [much bigger effect](http://sunlightfoundation.com/blog/2011/12/13/the-political-one-percent-of-the-one-percent/) on the Dems than the loss of a few percentage points (which would be made up in part by a populist appeal to the other 95%): > [@](#): > > In the 2010 election cycle, 26,783 individuals (or slightly less than one in ten thousand Americans) each contributed more than $10,000 to federal political campaigns. Combined, these donors spent $774 million. That’s 24.3% of the total from individuals to politicians, parties, PACs, and independent expenditure groups. I think it’s safe to say if you’re contributing $10,000 to federal campaigns, you probably aren’t in the 95%. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1587 "2013-07-18T18:41:20Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Oh, look! Empathy! You might want to take a good, long look, **adaher** and **Debaser** …I know neither of you gets this close to empathy very often. That’s a lack of empathy. Would either you or he say that these policies have helped poor people? It’s not the waste. It’s the destruction of their ability to care for themselves. And the fact is, once you get to taxpayer levels of income, Democrats start losing a lot of support. So there are a lot of people who get it. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1588 "2013-07-18T18:43:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s a lack of empathy. Would either you or he say that these policies have helped poor people? It’s not the waste. It’s the destruction of their ability to care for themselves. > > And the fact is, once you get to taxpayer levels of income, Democrats start losing a lot of support. So there are a lot of people who get it. Looks like rationalization to me. “Oh, I’d love to help you, but it would just encourage you to become dependent. So screw you, it’s for your own good.” ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1589 "2013-07-18T18:46:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s a lack of empathy. Would either you or he say that these policies have helped poor people? It’s not the waste. It’s the destruction of their ability to care for themselves. > > And the fact is, once you get to taxpayer levels of income, Democrats start losing a lot of support. So there are a lot of people who get it. When I was still able to work, I paid taxes and never supported the Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1590 "2013-07-18T18:49:55Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Looks like rationalization to me. “Oh, I’d love to help you, but it would just encourage you to become dependent. So screw you, it’s for your own good.” That was a plausible argument before welfare reform. Post-welfare reform, conservatives were proven 100% right. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1591 "2013-07-18T18:50:56Z")
I would encourage Democrats, by all means, to run in 2016 on raising taxes on the middle class. There is an overwhelming consensus among liberal Dopers that their taxes should go up. NOw that’s a focus group if I ever saw one! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1592 "2013-07-18T18:53:40Z")
After all, poverty didn’t exist before Roosevelt and Johnson invented it. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1593 "2013-07-18T19:01:38Z")
It did, however, become more entrenched, albeit reduced. It was reduced even more when time limits were placed on welfare, as opposed to the starving in the streets horror stories predicted by the left. As for willingness to pay more taxes goes, my income doesn’t go any further, so I’d take a major hit if I had to pay anymore. I’d be very unmollified if my paying more taxes meant that I now qualified for all kinds of government help. That’s the worst possible outcome, making people poor and then helping them. “Hey, I took your leg away,but here’s a crutch. See, you’d never be able to walk without me!” BTW, this conversation we’re having now? It’s why Democrats lost from 1980-2008. The only way a Democrat could get into the White House during that period was to vow to “end welfare as we know it”. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1594 "2013-07-18T19:04:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I would encourage Democrats, by all means, to run in 2016 on raising taxes on the middle class. There is an overwhelming consensus among liberal Dopers that their taxes should go up. NOw that’s a focus group if I ever saw one! Republican Gov. Rick Snyder of Michigan must be a closet Democrat, having made pensions taxable and essentially eliminating the property tax credit. Raising taxes isn’t quite the third rail you think it is. Even Saint Ronald raised taxes. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1595 "2013-07-18T19:06:47Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > As for willingness to pay more taxes goes, my income doesn’t go any further, so I’d take a major hit if I had to pay anymore. You obviously have internet access. I’m sure you have phone service, probably a cell phone. Frivolous. Get a second job or start a business. That’s what the Republican Party believes. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1596 "2013-07-18T19:35:33Z")
They believe it if my income doesn’t cover my wants. They do not believe that people should have to lower their lifestyle to pay taxes. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1597 "2013-07-18T19:37:07Z")
In any case, you guys need a big war. Wars have historically been the only way middle class people support raising their own taxes. Then Democrats give back only half of the tax increase after the war. there was also bracket creep, which was pretty sneaky. You liberals will stop at nothing to part middle class folks from their hard earned money. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1598 "2013-07-18T19:48:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > In any case, you guys need a big war. Wars have historically been the only way middle class people support raising their own taxes. Then Democrats give back only half of the tax increase after the war. > > there was also bracket creep, which was pretty sneaky. You liberals will stop at nothing to part middle class folks from their hard earned money. So how come it is [largely the red states](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state) who receive more in federal spending than they pay in taxes? We can’t afford your brand of self reliance. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1599 "2013-07-18T19:58:28Z")
Red states are working to end a lot of that spending. Don’t blame us for your misplaced generosity. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1600 "2013-07-18T20:03:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Red states are working to end a lot of that spending. No they aren’t they are working to increase spending in red states, while cutting spending in blue states. Rural conservatives want more spending for themselves. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=79) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=81)