# Will The Republicans ever figure out why they lost? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224 "2012-12-26T21:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 89
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1761 "2013-07-26T16:24:37Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > ok thanks for pointing out the obvious. In any case, what you have is a net transfer of resources from taxpayers not using the free stuff to taxpayers recieving more than what they paid in taxes for the free stuff. You realize you are citing a transfer from the blue states, who pay more in federal taxes, to the red states who take more in federal spending? Sounds like a plank in the conservative platform to me. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1762 "2013-07-26T16:32:08Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > It’s human nature to want more. What’s truly abhorrent is that the poor, who don’t even have enough, are vilified while those who have more than they could use in a lifetime, are lauded. Even worse, it’s seen as a virtue to take from the poor if it makes you wealthier. I don’t support taking a single dime from the poor. I also don’t support extorting the working class so that politicians can hand out money willy nilly to satisfy their electoral hopes. i think there’s plenty of villification of both the rich and poor, but then again i’m not a blind partisan of either side. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1763 "2013-07-26T16:33:48Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You realize you are citing a transfer from the blue states, who pay more in federal taxes, to the red states who take more in federal spending? Sounds like a plank in the conservative platform to me. I had no idea we paid taxes as states. All this time I thought we paid as individuals. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1764 "2013-07-26T16:39:48Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Do you consider the Sheriff of Nottingham to be the good guy in those stories? Obviously my opposition to taxation hasn’t hit home. In those stories the rich came to be that way illegitimately, so no I wouldn’t support the Sheriff protecting them or taxing the people. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1765 "2013-07-26T16:41:39Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I had no idea we paid taxes as states. All this time I thought we paid as individuals. The individuals who elect Republicans are getting more in federal spending than the individuals who elect Democrats, who pay more in federal taxes. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1766 "2013-07-26T16:50:58Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The individuals who elect Republicans are getting more in federal spending than the individuals who elect Democrats, who pay more in federal taxes. Not necessarily. You can’t make that claim from the data you reference. Net taxpayers in blue states could be Republicans, while net benefitters of taxes in red states could be Democrats. Not to mention the people who don’t vote at all. I’m not saying you are wrong i’m saying that you aren’t speaking from certainty. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1767 "2013-07-26T16:55:23Z")
To be clear, I don’t support the transfer of wealth from blue states to red states any more than I support the transfer from middle to upper classes, grocery stores to Lockheed Martin or any other transfer inherent in taxation. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1768 "2013-07-26T16:55:33Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Not necessarily. You can’t make that claim from the data you reference. Net taxpayers in blue states could be Republicans, while net benefitters of taxes in red states could be Democrats. Not to mention the people who don’t vote at all. I’m not saying you are wrong i’m saying that you aren’t speaking from certainty. So your claim that the “transfer of resources from taxpayers not using the free stuff to taxpayers recieving more than what they paid in taxes” could apply equally to parasitic conservatives as to liberals? Just no proof otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1769 "2013-07-26T17:04:15Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So your claim that the “transfer of resources from taxpayers not using the free stuff to taxpayers recieving more than what they paid in taxes” could apply equally to parasitic conservatives as to liberals? Just no proof otherwise? of course. In fact i would say it would apply to conservatives just as much as liberals. Just look at Bush with his handouts to the elderly and military interests. We would have to look at individual policies in order to ascertain who was the likely beneficiary of the transfer scheme. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1770 "2013-07-26T17:13:11Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > To be clear, I don’t support the transfer of wealth from blue states to red states any more than I support the transfer from middle to upper classes, grocery stores to Lockheed Martin or any other transfer inherent in taxation. Of course, we can’t do without taxes, and **some** form of wealth transfer is inherent in any taxation. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1771 "2013-07-26T17:14:45Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Obviously my opposition to taxation hasn’t hit home. In those stories the rich came to be that way illegitimately . . . Most of them, I’m sure, got their wealth through lawful inheritance. Is that something you would abolish? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1772 "2013-07-26T17:19:06Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Obviously my opposition to taxation hasn’t hit home. Oh, one of _those_. Can I have those pixels back? I hate to waste them. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1773 "2013-07-26T17:35:27Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > ok thanks for pointing out the obvious. In any case, what you have is a net transfer of resources from taxpayers not using the free stuff to taxpayers recieving more than what they paid in taxes for the free stuff. There is no way around this. Mr. Farnaby would have only Food Stamp recipients pay the taxes needed for Food Stamps. Only families with a student receiving a Federal Pell Grant should be taxed for that, and so on. BTW, Mr. Farnaby, I don’t want to talk about you “behind your back” so will mention that I criticize your views in another thread, with the note: “Example 1) **WillFarnaby** : Smallpox is better than fiber optic cables.” > [@Hyper-Libertarians Say the Darndest Things](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hyper-libertarians-say-the-darndest-things/664032/6): > > … If you draw a line connecting the trough of the Bush-41 recession to the trough of the Bush-43 recession, you’ll find the Clinton boom was huge _even with the bust in the early Bush-43 years factored in_. Or, to paraphrase Alan Greenspan, “It is better to have boomed and busted than never to have boomed at all.” For this reason, I think Farnaby’s contention that the slight over-investment in 1999 is reason to abolish the FRB and let money creation and bank regulation be completely privatised _while condemning the practice of mandatory vaccinations which give only trivial “irrelevant” benefits like the eradication of smallpox_ certainly qualifies Farnaby as Hyper-_Something_, even if the Pro-Casino Libertarians disown him. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1774 "2013-07-26T18:45:38Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Not necessarily. You can’t make that claim from the data you reference. Net taxpayers in blue states could be Republicans, while net benefitters of taxes in red states could be Democrats. Not to mention the people who don’t vote at all. I’m not saying you are wrong i’m saying that you aren’t speaking from certainty. No, we can definitely make that claim. Your scheme would apply equally to blue states then, if it was Democrats that were paying less and Republicans paying more, so that in blue states you’d have more of a drain on federal resources than red. Since that doesn’t happen, we can definitively state that Republican conservatives pay less in taxes and more of their support come from Democratic liberals. Conservatives are a drain on resources while liberals create more. That’s fact ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1775 "2013-07-26T20:36:50Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > No, we can definitely make that claim. Your scheme would apply equally to blue states then, if it was Democrats that were paying less and Republicans paying more, so that in blue states you’d have more of a drain on federal resources than red. Since that doesn’t happen, we can definitively state that Republican conservatives pay less in taxes and more of their support come from Democratic liberals. Conservatives are a drain on resources while liberals create more. That’s fact Actually you failed to comprehend my post. Reread it. If you still don’t get why you’re wrong, I will explain when I have more time. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1776 "2013-07-26T20:47:08Z")
No need, I understood it the first time and there’s no reason to get any more dirty by subjecting myself to it again. Red states are a net drain on the federal coffers, that’s a fact, and its because of all of the so-called fiscal conservatives, voting themselves to the public’s money like the parasites they consider all those types of people are. The best way to balance the budget would be if they committed suicide ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1777 "2013-07-26T20:47:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Most of them, I’m sure, got their wealth through lawful inheritance. Is that something you would abolish? At some point in their lineage, they wealth they inherited was stolen in the form of taxes or the product of serf labor. This would make the legitimate owners the serfs. > [@septimus](#): > > Mr. Farnaby would have only Food Stamp recipients pay the taxes needed for Food Stamps. Only families with a student receiving a Federal Pell Grant should be taxed for that, and so on. > > BTW, Mr. Farnaby, I don’t want to talk about you “behind your back” so will mention that I criticize your views in another thread, with the note: > “Example 1) **WillFarnaby** : Smallpox is better than fiber optic cables.” Of course Greenspan is going to say that lol. I bet Cheney still supports the Iraq War does that make it right? In any case you make the assumption that there wouldn’t have been growth in a mildly deflationary environment. Which there clearly was in the late 1800’s. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1778 "2013-07-26T20:49:03Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > No need, I understood it the first time and there’s no reason to get any more dirty by subjecting myself to it again. Red states are a net drain on the federal coffers, that’s a fact, and its because of all of the so-called fiscal conservatives, voting themselves to the public’s money like the parasites they consider all those types of people are. The best way to balance the budget would be if they committed suicide Or seceded. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1779 "2013-07-26T21:37:36Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Or seceded. No, because we don’t judge the strength of the union on solely fiscal terms, and we don’t seek to cut off people who take more than they give. We just want them to stop blaming liberals for their own shortcomings, and admit they need us more than we need them. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1780 "2013-07-26T22:13:26Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Or seceded. So, are you a secessionist? Or, suggesting that secession is a viable option? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=88) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=90)