# Will The Republicans ever figure out why they lost? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224 "2012-12-26T21:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 98
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1941 "2013-07-31T16:02:30Z")
Did anyone ever interview a member(s) of Romney’s audience and ask them what the thought of Romney’s comment? Did member(s) buy into his assertion that the 47% are a bunch of moochers pledging fealty to the Democratic Party? Or, that member(s) saw it as rhetoric designed to win campaign contributions. Or somewhere in between? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1942 "2013-07-31T23:22:51Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > The thing about all the controversy about what Romney said is that, at base, I think what he said was true. I mean, in every election, barring some unusual situation, you’ve got like 45-47% of the population who’s going to vote for you anyway, and 45%-47% of the population who’s going to vote against you anyway, and you can’t worry about those people. The people you worry about are the swing who might vote either way. Yes, not everyone will vote for you, but no, you do still have to worry about the ones who don’t. You are running to be president of the entire country, and you will be making decisions that affect everyone’s lives. You must have the nation’s best interest at heart, not just the interests of your base and some of the undecideds. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1943 "2013-07-31T23:55:35Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Yes, not everyone will vote for you, but no, you do still have to worry about the ones who don’t. You are running to be president of the entire country, and you will be making decisions that affect everyone’s lives. You must have the nation’s best interest at heart, not just the interests of your base and some of the undecideds. Not when you’re running or planning campaign strategy. This was a fundraising dinner. And he probably was an idiot in thinking his comments weren’t going to get out, but he thought his comments weren’t going to get out. If he knew he was being taped, he wouldn’t have said that stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1944 "2013-08-01T02:32:00Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Not when you’re running or planning campaign strategy. This was a fundraising dinner. And he probably was an idiot in thinking his comments weren’t going to get out, but he thought his comments weren’t going to get out. If he knew he was being taped, he wouldn’t have said that stuff. Irrelevant, at least it would be to me. If a candidate for president promised something to me that I felt was detrimental, or even dismissive, to a large part of the population, that wouldn’t get my vote. I recognize that the presidency should not serve narrow interests, even my own. I want a candidate who recognizes it too, and is willing to admit it. And to get back to the theme of this thread, that touches on a tenet of Republicanism. They seem to really believe that what’s good for their rich donors is, in all cases and by definition, good for the country. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1945 "2013-08-01T18:04:42Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Yes, not everyone will vote for you, but no, you do still have to worry about the ones who don’t. You are running to be president of the entire country, and you will be making decisions that affect everyone’s lives. You must have the nation’s best interest at heart, not just the interests of your base and some of the undecideds. OTOH, there’s no good reason why the president-of-us-all cannot or should not also be a “class warrior.” ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1946 "2013-08-01T20:03:04Z")
Well, if the presidential candidate is fighting for the rights of the very rich minority, he may find himself lacking in votes… ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1947 "2013-08-01T20:05:51Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > And to get back to the theme of this thread, that touches on a tenet of Republicanism. They seem to really believe that what’s good for their rich donors is, in all cases and by definition, good for the country. Well, that’s better than making their arguments without believing it. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1948 "2013-08-01T21:41:34Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Well, that’s better than making their arguments without believing it. I’m not sure it matters to me if a politician is cynical and greedy or sincere and wrong. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1949 "2013-08-01T21:42:53Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I’m not sure it matters to me if a politician is cynical and greedy or sincere and wrong. Well, in theory, if someone is wrong, they can be convinced by facts and history and… Yeah, you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1950 "2013-08-02T04:20:20Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Well, if the presidential candidate is fighting for the rights of the very rich minority, he may find himself lacking in votes… OTOH, a presidential class warrior fighting for the rest of us as against those would not. ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1951 "2013-08-02T11:01:45Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > OTOH, a presidential class warrior fighting for the rest of us as against those would not. That depends on the level of disconnect some people have from their _actual_ class and what it means regarding policies. See: millionaires complaining about not being able to have enough spare cash to fill up their fifth Lexus, and low-income uninsured fighting against getting government assistance. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1952 "2013-08-02T11:21:12Z")
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - John Steinbeck ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1953 "2013-08-02T14:44:02Z")
> [@Double\_Foolscap](#): > > That depends on the level of disconnect some people have from their _actual_ class and what it means regarding policies. > > See: millionaires complaining about not being able to have enough spare cash to fill up their fifth Lexus, and low-income uninsured fighting against getting government assistance. I think it’s more a case of the wealthy using social hot button issues (abortion, gun control) to keep the low income idiots distracted while they are systematically robbed. Has worked very well for them too. And the thing is, it’s becoming bipartisan. The Republicans have middle and lower class conservatives fascinated with abortion, gay marriage and guns, and the Dems have middle and lower class liberals fascinated with gay marriage and marijuana legalization, while they rob the pockets of both. At last! A bipartisan agenda! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1954 "2013-08-02T16:21:31Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I think it’s more a case of the wealthy using social hot button issues (abortion, gun control) to keep the low income idiots distracted while they are systematically robbed. Has worked very well for them too. And the thing is, it’s becoming bipartisan. The Republicans have middle and lower class conservatives fascinated with abortion, gay marriage and guns, and the Dems have middle and lower class liberals fascinated with gay marriage and marijuana legalization, while they rob the pockets of both. > > At last! A bipartisan agenda! [And, yet . . .](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=698305) ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1955 "2013-08-02T18:22:20Z")
I’ve forced myself to read Charles Krauthammer for years looking for nuggets of conservative insight and wisdom in a vast leach field of reactionary polemics. But today’s [column](http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/charles-krauthammer-how-fractured-is-the-gop/2013/08/01/6fd6f816-fada-11e2-9bde-7ddaa186b751_story.html?tid=pm_opinions_pop) stunned me. It seemed…seemed so rational. He’s aiming his missive at the Tea Party’s refusal to compromise: > [@](#): > > Those who fancy themselves tea party patriots fighting a sold-out cocktail-swilling establishment are demanding yet another cliff dive as a show of principle and manliness. > > But there’s no principle at stake here. This is about tactics. If I thought this would work, I would support it. But I don’t fancy suicide. It has a tendency to be fatal. > > As for manliness, the real question here is sanity. Nothing could better revive the fortunes of a failing, flailing, fading Democratic administration than a government shutdown where the president is portrayed as standing up to the GOP on honoring our debts and paying our soldiers in the field. Even if a calamity results, however, until those Congressional districts who elected the Tea Party members are directly affected long-term by the fallout, expect things to remain the same. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1956 "2013-08-02T18:46:06Z")
Surprising. Krauthammer’s been stewing in his own bile for so long I thought there was nothing left but a pot of slime there. Kiddies, if \*Krauthammer \*thinks you’re nuts … ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1957 "2013-08-02T19:54:25Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Surprising. Krauthammer’s been stewing in his own bile for so long I thought there was nothing left but a pot of slime there. > > Kiddies, if \*Krauthammer \*thinks you’re nuts … Then he’s a RINO! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1958 "2013-08-03T02:21:42Z")
Another piece of evidence that the answer to the OP is “No” is in the Washington Post’s book review of Dan Balz’s book on the 2012 presidential campaign [http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/collision-2012-obama-vs-romney-and-the-future-of-elections-in-america-by-dan-balz/2013/08/02/df66f74a-efe4-11e2-a1f9-ea873b7e0424\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/collision-2012-obama-vs-romney-and-the-future-of-elections-in-america-by-dan-balz/2013/08/02/df66f74a-efe4-11e2-a1f9-ea873b7e0424_story.html) The salient points to this discussion are that Romney and his team had no clue as to why they lost, and still have no clue. It’s bad enough if the candidate is making the rookie mistake of believing his gut rather than outside polls, but for his top campaign staff to fall for that trap is inexcusable. Romney should have known better - he’s lost campaigns before. I’m sure there were big crowds for his senate bid, but he lost anyway. I’m sure the rallies for his 2008 GOP nomination run had lots of enthusiasm, but he lost anyway. Romney is in deep denial about the 47% quote, for crying out loud! If the GOP wants to win the presidency, they will have to do a lot better than the Romney campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1959 "2013-08-03T03:36:35Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I think it’s more a case of the wealthy using social hot button issues (abortion, gun control) to keep the low income idiots distracted while they are systematically robbed. Has worked very well for them too. And the thing is, it’s becoming bipartisan. The Republicans have middle and lower class conservatives fascinated with abortion, gay marriage and guns, and the Dems have middle and lower class liberals fascinated with gay marriage and marijuana legalization, while they rob the pockets of both. Yah well at least gay marriage and marijuana legalization are forward steps. Look. The rich are going to rob the poor no matter what (it is why I quit being poor and became [actually] middle class). If you know you’re hosed, might as well go for ethical points. [QUOTE=Paul Krauthammer] As for manliness, the real question here is sanity. [/QUOTE] Funny, [Krugman appears to agree with Krauthammer.](http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/01/chaos-looms/?_r=1&): > [@](#): > > Over the longer run the point is that one of America’s two major political parties has basically gone off the deep end; > [@](#): > > But neither you nor I should forget that the madness of the GOP is the central issue of our time. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1960 "2013-08-03T17:41:24Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > The rich are going to rob the poor no matter what . . . No, they’re always going to **try.** There are ways to stop them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=97) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=99)