# Will The Republicans ever figure out why they lost? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224 "2012-12-26T21:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 99
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1961 "2013-08-04T01:35:17Z")
preemptively rob them first? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1962 "2013-08-04T01:53:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > preemptively rob them first? Was thinking guillotine myself. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1963 "2013-08-04T01:57:54Z")
A party run by rich people isn’t going to be too much into taking from the rich. To the extent they do, they make sure to exempt themselves from the higher taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1964 "2013-08-04T04:23:06Z")
Here it is August 2013 and your post is proving to be spot-on. Not surprising though to those who’ve been monitoring the actions of republican insiders encounced in DC over the last couple of decades. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1965 "2013-08-04T08:24:13Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, they’re always going to **try.** There are ways to stop them. Which method(s) would you suggest? Would the Republicans approve any of them? Anyway, I think they will\*\* try\*\* to rob the middle, but mostly succeed with the poor. Counter-examples exist of course, but don’t the rich often get rich on the backs of the poor? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1966 "2013-08-04T08:36:53Z")
Only if they are using tax money to enrich themselves. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1967 "2013-08-04T15:27:01Z")
[http://www.bankrate.com/system/util/print.aspx?p=/finance/taxes/tax-deductions-favor-rich-1.aspx&s=br3&c=taxes&t=story&e=1&v=1](http://www.bankrate.com/system/util/print.aspx?p=/finance/taxes/tax-deductions-favor-rich-1.aspx&s=br3&c=taxes&t=story&e=1&v=1) > [@](#): > > When it comes to tax deductions, it is good to be rich – the richer, the better. > > Middle-class America enjoys some of the same tax breaks as the wealthy on things like the mortgage interest on home loans, capital gains on retirement investments and donations made to charity. > > However, the rich enjoy these deductions and others to a wildly disproportionate degree when compared to the rest of taxpayers. According to the National Priorities Project, America’s top earners will get an average tax cut of $66,384 in 2011 while the bottom 20 percent will realize an average tax savings of about $107. > > Seth Hanlon, director of fiscal reform for the Center for American Progress, says that while all tax breaks are well-intended, the “upside-down” nature of some miss their target. > > “Most people don’t see these as being government expenditures, but from an economic and budget point of view, they’re really the same thing as programs that spend money directly,” says Hanlon. “There are ways to reform them to make them work better.” I would point out that all those deductions make easier for the rich to finance astroturf movements or candidates that in other circumstances would never be elected, those extreme candidates then “by coincidence” also oppose inconveniencing the ones in power that are making a situation worse by making them pay the real cost of what they are avoiding. And so the Republicans that would be more reasonable are kicked out. [http://open.salon.com/blog/marcia\_g\_yerman/2013/06/24/bob\_inglis\_conservatives\_have\_a\_climate\_solution](http://open.salon.com/blog/marcia_g_yerman/2013/06/24/bob_inglis_conservatives_have_a_climate_solution) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1968 "2013-08-04T19:06:26Z")
Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1969 "2013-08-04T19:11:09Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Why you hate r1chies, g1go?!! Surely you jest, but the point is that mostly and thanks to those tax breaks is that many rich people have an easier time to give us the worst specimens of governance one could only had imagined in the past, maybe that was what Gödel saw as a flaw in our democratic system. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1970 "2013-08-04T19:23:46Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Surely you jest, but the point is that mostly and thanks to those tax breaks is that many rich people have an easier time to give us the worst specimens of governance one could only had imagined in the past, maybe that was what Gödel saw as a flaw in our democratic system. I was jesting and actually tried to go for maximum wingnuttiness by making it all caps, only to be thwarted by vBulletin (thus the footnote). ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1971 "2013-08-05T01:08:49Z")
Tax breaks is not taking taxpayer money, it’s keeping your own. What I was referring to are all these ex-politicians whose only talent is to lobby for earmarks for companies that hire them, or government contracts. Terry McCauliffe in particular is a guy whose made a Romney-like fortune by heading nonviable companies and lobbying for our money. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1972 "2013-08-05T01:18:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Tax breaks is not taking taxpayer money, it’s keeping your own. It is when deficits got worse. Sure it is your own money, but there is a social contract to keep. > [@adaher](#): > > What I was referring to are all these ex-politicians whose only talent is to lobby for earmarks for companies that hire them, or government contracts. > > Terry McCauliffe in particular is a guy whose made a Romney-like fortune by heading nonviable companies and lobbying for our money. Anyone that is criticized by Ken (I will prosecute the Galileos of today) Cuccinelli is not a bad person in my book. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1973 "2013-08-05T02:45:04Z")
Mccauliffe isn’t a bad person, he’s a great guy. But he’s not a very capable guy. He didn’t run the Democratic Party very well, his tenure was highly criticized from within the party, and he’s only been successful in the business world by using his connections. In fact, that’s his only quality. He can raise money better than almost anyone. Best used car salesman in the country. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1974 "2013-08-05T02:58:37Z")
And of course that makes it worse than Cuccinelli … not. Really, this is the time to stop encouraging the blind, they have no place in government. Specially when even Republicans Inglis are telling the party to stop following crackpot ideas that will affect all Americans. [http://climatecrocks.com/2013/07/29/new-politcal-ad-cuccinellis-witch-hunt/](http://climatecrocks.com/2013/07/29/new-politcal-ad-cuccinellis-witch-hunt/) > [@](#): > > Further underlining Climate Change’s maturation as a potent political issue – a new ad in the Virginia Governmental race features GOP candidate Ken Cuccinelli’s crazed fixation on persecution of climate scientist Mike Mann. > > Washington Post: > > > [@](#): > > > > RICHMOND — The newest TV ad in the Virginia governor’s race focuses on Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli II’s legal battle with a University of Virginia climate scientist. > > > > ``` > > Titled “Witch Hunt,” the commercial recalls a two-year effort by Cuccinelli, the GOP nominee for governor and a climate change skeptic, to obtain records from Michael Mann, then a U-Va. researcher. > > > > The campaign of Terry McAuliffe, Cuccinelli’s Democratic rival, released the ad Monday. It declined to say where it will run and for how long. > > > > “It’s been called ‘Cuccinelli’s witch hunt.’ ‘Designed to intimidate and suppress,’ ” a narrator for the 30-second spot says, quoting newspaper editorials from the time. “Ken Cuccinelli used taxpayer funds to investigate a U-Va. professor whose research on climate change Cuccinelli opposed. Cuccinelli, a climate change denier, forced the university to spend over half a million dollars defending itself against its own attorney general. Ken Cuccinelli — he’s focused on his own agenda, not us.” > > > > ``` BTW the previous cite with Inglis shows that you are indeed clueless when you claim that industry is doing enough in this issue, as Inglis would tell you there is still a lot and government can help a lot. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1975 "2013-08-05T03:03:36Z")
Government can always help, a carbon tax is a good idea, if we also reduce payroll taxes to compensate. But it’s also true that the private sector has reduced emissions far more than government was ever able to, just as the private sector has reduced world poverty far more than the worlds’ governments ever did. Which is why you treating climate denialism as a disqualifying offense is ridiculous. Being wrong on a scientific matter is only disqualifying if the issue will affect their ability to govern because they will act on that poor understanding of science. Since the government’s efforts to combat climate change have been ineffective, this is not the case. Electing a denier just means that the government will waste less money being ineffective at fighting climate change. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1976 "2013-08-05T03:13:58Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Government can always help, a carbon tax is a good idea, if we also reduce payroll taxes to compensate. > > But it’s also true that the private sector has reduced emissions far more than government was ever able to, just as the private sector has reduced world poverty far more than the worlds’ governments ever did. And that shows that you did not read what Inglis had to say, the implication of the piece is that indeed you are wrong on the levels the private sector has reduced emissions, lots more are needed. > [@adaher](#): > > Which is why you treating climate denialism as a disqualifying offense is ridiculous. Nope, since you are wrong on the levels of change that are needed your reply here is only a demonstration of ignorance. > [@adaher](#): > > Being wrong on a scientific matter is only disqualifying if the issue will affect their ability to govern because they will act on that poor understanding of science. Since the government’s efforts to combat climate change have been ineffective, this is not the case. Electing a denier just means that the government will waste less money being ineffective at fighting climate change. And this is just the icing on the cake, you really have no credible points here. Indeed when the solution to the problem is to deny it, it follows that then they guys like Cuccinelli are also clueless on what the economic experts are telling us about what it should be the best way forward to deal with this issue. And once again you are also denying what government did well regarding past commons tragedies like bad water, phosphate contamination of rivers and lakes, acid rain and ozone layer depletion gases. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1977 "2013-08-05T03:47:44Z")
Government cannot achieve the reductions necessary, it’s not politically possible. They know that, which is why they are subsidizing various alternatives, none of which have borne fruit. Meanwhile, the one thing they didn’t subsidize turned out to help a lot. That’s the problem with picking winners and losers. It’s like trying to pick the best sports teams based on political considerations. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1978 "2013-08-05T03:59:47Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Government cannot achieve the reductions necessary, it’s not politically possible. They know that, which is why they are subsidizing various alternatives, none of which have borne fruit. Meanwhile, the one thing they didn’t subsidize turned out to help a lot. Wrong too as Tesla, General motors and the banks can tell you. > [@adaher](#): > > That’s the problem with picking winners and losers. It’s like trying to pick the best sports teams based on political considerations. Easy to say when depending on ignorance. Once again, acting like if that waste of taxpayers money when Cuccinelli prosecuted a climate scientist for stupid reasons is not important is silly, it shows how he will govern and it points to the kind of waste that is very damaging in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1979 "2013-08-05T04:34:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > ]But it’s also true that the private sector has reduced emissions far more than government was ever able to,… You know, just because you ignore the arguments against you doesn’t mean they don’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224/1980 "2013-08-05T06:54:47Z")
The arguments made questioned the motive, not the result. As if good intentions mattered more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=98) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-ever-figure-out-why-they-lost/645224.md?page=100)