# Will the Republicans keep beating the abortion drum after this year's election? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 7, 2012, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214 "2012-11-07T14:01:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![EverwonderWhy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EverwonderWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EverwonderWhy)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/241 "2013-01-10T00:58:50Z")
Well, apparently no, the Republicans will continue to beat the abortion drum. [Paul Ryan Cosponsors New Fetal Personhood Bill](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/09/paul-ryan-personhood-bill_n_2440365.html) > [@](#): > > Despite the deep unpopularity of fetal personhood bills in 2012, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) has again decided to cosponsor the Sanctity of Human Life Act, a bill that gives full legal rights to human zygotes from the moment of fertilization. > > Ryan, who reportedly has 2016 presidential ambitions, had to de-emphasize his opposition to abortion without exceptions during the 2012 election to align his position with presidential candidate Mitt Romney. But this year, Ryan has been tapped as a keynote speaker for the anti-abortion group Susan B. Anthony List’s sixth annual Campaign for Life Gala, and he is re-upping his support for the most extreme anti-abortion legislation in the country. I’m sure this will help Ryan capture more of the women’s vote in 2016. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/242 "2013-01-10T01:29:26Z")
> [@EverwonderWhy](#): > > I’m sure this will help Ryan capture more of the women’s vote in 2016. Women can vote now? How long has this been going on? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/243 "2013-07-04T19:00:27Z")
Reviving this thread to wonder aloud about who exactly is beating that drum again. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/244 "2013-07-04T19:38:30Z")
There have been numerous initiatives to restrict abortions at the state level, all by Republicans, most recently in Texas, provoking that heroic 13 hour filibuster. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/245 "2013-07-07T00:49:52Z")
A filibuster which shows the country that Democrats are extreme on abortion: they favor no actual limits on when an abortion can take place. I love national debates where both sides are sure the public is behind them. No excuses, no hiding, like we saw on Obamacare and will see on gun control once elections get close. Democrats are going to fly their abortion up to the moment of birth flag high, and Republicans will fly theirs high. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/246 "2013-07-07T00:53:25Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > A filibuster which shows the country that Democrats are extreme on abortion: they favor no actual limits on when an abortion can take place. No actual limits? Such as mucking about with regulation that essentially eliminates all abortion services in a state for the majority of the population? Interesting definition of “extreme.” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/247 "2013-07-07T01:11:54Z")
When Democrats regulate other businesses and they are forced out of business, they don’t show nearly as much compassion. All REpublicans are doing is applying the same regulatory mindset to abortion clinics. Meanwhile, Democrats don’t even favor inspection of clinics to make sure they are even sanitary. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/248 "2013-07-07T02:01:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > When Democrats regulate other businesses and they are forced out of business, they don’t show nearly as much compassion. Bullshit. > [@](#): > > All REpublicans are doing is applying the same regulatory mindset to abortion clinics. All Republicans are doing is trying to shut down abortion clinics so that fewer people can have access to abortion services. > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, Democrats don’t even favor inspection of clinics to make sure they are even sanitary. Bullshit. Come up with a rational regulation that doesn’t have the intent or result of denying people access to abortion services then you will not find any Democratic opposition. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/249 "2013-07-07T02:19:26Z")
Then how come abortion clinics weren’t inspected in Pennsylvania? Simple: it was feared that even simple inspections would force shutdowns. That’s the nature of regulation: some businesses won’t measure up and will be forced to close. ---
**Author:** ![EverwonderWhy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EverwonderWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EverwonderWhy)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/250 "2013-07-07T18:11:19Z")
The lack of Pennsylvania inspections occurred under a Republican Administration. It is totally disingenuous to say Democrats are against safety and sanitary inspections. What Democrats are against is targeting of abortion clinics for irrelevant regulations and inspections when other medical and dental clinics that perform procedures of similar invasiveness and complexity get to play by a different set of rules. Medical clinics should be regulated and inspected using the same criteria, according to complexity of procedures. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/251 "2013-07-07T20:30:21Z")
Why are you guys even bothering anymore? Republicans are always right and will win every election ever due to their overwhelmingly\* popular positions. Hell, they didn’t even do anything wrong in 2012 (except not properly sell their overwhelmingly popular positions). Plus black people are Democrats. Oh, and Hispanics. Oh, and young people. Oh, and ‘teh gays’. Oh, and some magically shrinking number of (‘liberal’) white people. Really, it’s all in the cards for the complete demise of the Democratic party. It’s all but over, folks. - “overwhelmingly” defined as “any position held (in any poll ever) by more than 50% of whites, but not necessarily by a majority of the actual total population.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/252 "2013-07-07T21:31:53Z")
Well, there’s the problem, isn’t it? How can you sell an overwhelmingly popular opinion? Everybody already believes it, how can you convince them its true? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/253 "2013-07-07T22:09:14Z")
Most Americans are opposed to late term abortion. This is a battleground Republicans want to fight on, and Democrats are taking the bait. Maybe foolishly, but we’ll see. Maybe Democrats are right and the public now supports abortion at any point in pregnancy. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/254 "2013-07-07T22:17:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Most Americans are opposed to late term abortion. This is a battleground Republicans want to fight on, and Democrats are taking the bait. Maybe foolishly, but we’ll see. Maybe Democrats are right and the public now supports abortion at any point in pregnancy. Most Americans are opposed to the carefully-crafted lie that Republicans use to describe “late-term abortion”. But when you actually sit people down, and explain just WHY the overwhelming percentage of “late-term abortions” are performed, you find out that people would rather allow women to actually survive their pregnancies and/or not have to carry their brain-dead (and sometimes brain-absent) fetus to term as it rots in their uterus. But, you know…better that Republicans win elections than women actually have better lives. Winning elections is SO much more important than retaining fertility or continuing to survive a life-threatening pregnancy-related condition. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/255 "2013-07-07T22:21:23Z")
That information is supposition. There are no actual studies on why late term abortions are done and no reporting required in most states. So yes, if you make stuff up, you can convince people of anything. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/256 "2013-07-07T22:27:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That information is supposition. There are no actual studies on why late term abortions are done and no reporting required in most states. > > So yes, if you make stuff up, you can convince people of anything. [Try looking harder.](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10426234) [Also, this.](http://sciencenotes.wordpress.com/2009/06/22/what-causes-third-trimester-abortions/) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/257 "2013-07-07T22:41:54Z")
Nice try, but the first study only looks at terminations for abnormalities, which means 100% of the test group got abortions for fetal abnormalities. Duh. And the second link just references the first link. But you’re right, I should look harder, so I found this: According to Guttmacher, most late term abortions are elective: > **[Late termination of pregnancy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late-term_abortion)** > > Late termination of pregnancy, also referred to as late-term abortion, describes the termination of pregnancy by induced abortion during a late stage of gestation. In this context, late is not precisely defined, and different medical publications use varying gestational age thresholds. As of 2015\[update\] in the United States, more than 90% of abortions occur before the 13th week, 1.3% of abortions in the United States took place after the 21st week, and less than 1% occur after 24 wee Reasons f... 71% Woman didn’t recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation 48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion 33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents 24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion 8% Woman waited for her relationship to change 8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion 6% Something changed after woman became pregnant 6% Woman didn’t know timing is important 5% Woman didn’t know she could get an abortion 2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy 11% Other ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/258 "2013-07-07T22:50:45Z")
71% Woman didn’t recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation Because Republicans are against sex education. 48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion Because Republicans are against access to abortion. 33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents (Among other reasons) Because Republicans are for parental notification. 24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion Republicans mostly blameless. 8% Woman waited for her relationship to change 8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion 6% Something changed after woman became pregnant Same as above. 6% Woman didn’t know timing is important Because of Republicans fighting sex education. 5% Woman didn’t know she could get an abortion Because of Republicans fighting sex education. 2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy 11% Other Republicans mostly blameless. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/259 "2013-07-07T22:56:25Z")
Then let’s find out why late term abortions are done in Europe and see if sex education reduces the proportion of late term abortions that are elective. Oh wait, elective late term abortion is illegal in most of Europe! Kinda like the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/260 "2013-07-07T22:56:25Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Nice try, but the first study only looks at terminations for abnormalities, which means 100% of the test group got abortions for fetal abnormalities. Duh. And the second link just references the first link. But you’re right, I should look harder, so I found this: > > According to Guttmacher, most late term abortions are elective: > > [Late termination of pregnancy - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late-term_abortion) > > 71% Woman didn’t recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation > 48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion > 33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents > 24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion > 8% Woman waited for her relationship to change > 8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion > 6% Something changed after woman became pregnant > 6% Woman didn’t know timing is important > 5% Woman didn’t know she could get an abortion > 2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy > 11% Other That’s from 1987. From the same Wiki article. > [@](#): > > As of April 2007, 36 states had bans on late-term abortions that were not facially unconstitutional (i.e. banning _all_ abortions) or enjoined by court order. In addition, the Supreme Court in the case of _[Gonzales v. Carhart](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Carhart)_ ruled that Congress may ban certain late-term abortion techniques, “both previability and postviability”. > The Supreme Court has held that bans must include exceptions for threats to the woman’s life, physical health, and mental health, but four states allow late-term abortions only when the woman’s life is at risk; four allow them when the woman’s life or physical health is at risk, but use a definition of health that pro-choice organizations believe is impermissibly narrow.QUOTE] Assuming that one of these state bans is constitutionally flawed, then that does not necessarily mean that the entire ban would be struck down: “invalidating the statute entirely is not always necessary or justified, for lower courts may be able to render narrower declaratory and injunctive relief.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214.md?page=14)