# Will the Republicans keep beating the abortion drum after this year's election? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 7, 2012, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214 "2012-11-07T14:01:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/21 "2012-11-07T15:06:01Z")
The OP’s premise seems to be that abortion is some kind of red herring brought up to distract from the “real issues”. I would submit that the leaders of both parties know otherwise. A significant chunk of the electorate holds a deep-seated, moral position one way or the other on abortion, and there has been little leftward trend as with other issues. In the heavily Catholic city I live in, anti-abortion bumper stickers easily outnumber bumper stickers on any other political issue. And most Hispanics are pretty traditional Catholics. Then you have a chunk of people who think any restrictions at all on abortion are immoral. Politicians would love to ignore this issue, because anything you say is going to lose you votes, but they can’t. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/22 "2012-11-07T15:06:17Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > So you’re simultaneously arguing that abortion is not enough of a deciding issue to dissuade whole demographics from voting Democrat, and also an important enough issue to literally steal votes from the other side. He has been doing that a lot lately - for example, he said earlier that Romney campaigning in Pennsylvania was a sign of strength but Obama campaigning just about anywhere else was a sign of weakness. He gets called on these inconsistencies a lot too. It’s almost as if he goes out of his way to post outlandish things just to get a reaction. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/23 "2012-11-07T15:06:43Z")
I don’t think abortion was the issue that did republicans in, it was the attempt of some Republicans to justify not allowing abortions even in the case of rape that did them in. They did not appear to understand how deeply unpopular and repugnant rape is to ordinary Americans. There is no justifying, redefining or otherwise fiddling with rape in any way that will make it less horrific. If you are perceived as being anything but staunchly opposed to rape, it’s pretty much the same thing as being perceived as anything but staunchly opposed to child molestation: kiss of death, politically. I am betting most Republicans know that now. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/24 "2012-11-07T15:08:04Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > You seem to be laboring under the assumption that “because X votes for Y, then X must agree with Y on issue Z”. That’s quite an untrue assumption, even one I don’t think the smartest of you would make. But I have been wrong in the past 😉 Look, you just made the claim that Mitt Romney was unable to bring up economic issues because the Democrats wouldn’t stop yelling about abortion. In fact, I’ll quote you: > [@](#): > > Perhaps you should go back and read. You’ll be hard pressed to find where Republicans went out of their way to talk about abortion in this year’s presidential election. They did not. Romney, especially, tried focusing on the economy-- constantly trying to deflect away from the abortion issue-- while Democrats ran Abortionpalooza. Do you remember writing that? So, if that were true, it would have to mean that the electorate was more responsive to abortion than to economic issues. Otherwise, they would simply tune out of Abortionpalooza. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/25 "2012-11-07T15:10:36Z")
FTR, I agree with OMGABC’s posts to this thread, and think most or all the criticism directed at him ignores the context and meaning of his posts. > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I don’t think abortion was the issue that did republicans in, it was the attempt of some Republicans to justify not allowing abortions even in the case of rape that did them in. They did not appear to understand how deeply unpopular and repugnant rape is to ordinary Americans. There is no justifying, redefining or otherwise fiddling with rape in any way that will make it less horrific. If you are perceived as being anything but staunchly opposed to rape, it’s pretty much the same thing as being perceived as anything but staunchly opposed to child molestation: kiss of death, politically. I am betting most Republicans know that now. I pretty much agree with this. Particularly in the case of Mourdock, it was based on a play on his words, turning “I think the pregnancy was God’s will” into “I think the rape was God’s will”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/26 "2012-11-07T15:13:12Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Look, you just made the claim that Mitt Romney was unable to bring up economic issues because the Democrats wouldn’t stop yelling about abortion… So, if that were true, it would have to mean that the electorate was more responsive to abortion than to economic issues. Otherwise, they would simply tune out of Abortionpalooza. Another example is the blatant attempt on the right (cheered on by Fox News but also taken up by more outlets, pundits and the Romney campaign itself) to make Benghazi an issue. It didn’t sway the electorate at all. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/27 "2012-11-07T15:13:22Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That said, if the votes are truly not there, and the electorate is truly opposed to abortion restrictions, then anti-abortion candidates just won’t be successful. But I don’t think this is actually the case. It’s my impression that public support for restrictions on abortion has actually trended higher in recent years. You are also [wrong](http://www.livescience.com/22654-american-public-opinion-abortion.html): “A May 2012 Gallup poll with a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percent found that 77 percent of Americans thought abortion should be always legal or sometimes legal. Twenty percent said abortion should be illegal in all circumstances. Notably, this 20 percent was much smaller than the number of people who declared themselves “pro-life” (50 percent), suggesting that people who identify with that label do not always reject abortion in every circumstance.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/28 "2012-11-07T15:14:13Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > F(I)n the case of Mourdock, it was based on a play on his words, turning “I think the pregnancy was God’s will” into “I think the rape was God’s will”. A \*play \*on words? Or maybe the electorate doesn’t think babies come from storks? ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/29 "2012-11-07T15:15:26Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I don’t think abortion was the issue that did republicans in, it was the attempt of some Republicans to justify not allowing abortions even in the case of rape that did them in. They did not appear to understand how deeply unpopular and repugnant rape is to ordinary Americans. There is no justifying, redefining or otherwise fiddling with rape in any way that will make it less horrific. If you are perceived as being anything but staunchly opposed to rape, it’s pretty much the same thing as being perceived as anything but staunchly opposed to child molestation: kiss of death, politically. I am betting most Republicans know that now. I can’t see how allowing or banning abortion in the case of rape would have any effect at all on the likelihood of rape. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/30 "2012-11-07T15:16:48Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > You are also [wrong](http://www.livescience.com/22654-american-public-opinion-abortion.html): > > “A May 2012 Gallup poll with a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percent found that 77 percent of Americans thought abortion should be always legal or sometimes legal. Twenty percent said abortion should be illegal in all circumstances. Notably, this 20 percent was much smaller than the number of people who declared themselves “pro-life” (50 percent), suggesting that people who identify with that label do not always reject abortion in every circumstance.” That does not contradict anything I wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/31 "2012-11-07T15:19:11Z")
This is ridiculous. Yeah, the pubs wanted to talk about the economy and only the economy. They made the campaign about that as much as they could as a matter of tactics, sure. But some people have actually been paying attention. We saw the Tea Party holler on and on about the debt and jobs, and then once in office _poof_ all that was gone, no progress could be made on those issues, instead is was one abortion bill after another from them. Absolutely absurd position you’re taking, OMG. Romney would’ve appointed anti-Roe justices and humored the Tea Party contingent in Congress. The more trogdolytic comments by certain congresscritters that you’re saying the Dems ran with happen to be representative of the position of the right, and people rejected that. This one is pretty face-value. Give it up and move on, let’s argue about something else. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/32 "2012-11-07T15:19:27Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That does not contradict anything I wrote. You said: > [@](#): > > It’s my impression that public support for restrictions on abortion has actually trended higher in recent years. And you would be wrong. [Here’s another cite.](http://www.gallup.com/poll/1576/Abortion.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/33 "2012-11-07T15:21:18Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > “A May 2012 Gallup poll with a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percent found that 77 percent of Americans thought abortion should be always legal or sometimes legal. Twenty percent said abortion should be illegal in all circumstances. Notably, this 20 percent was much smaller than the number of people who declared themselves “pro-life” (50 percent), suggesting that people who identify with that label do not always reject abortion in every circumstance.” You’re both wrong; there are [no discernible trends either way](http://www.gallup.com/poll/154838/Pro-Choice-Americans-Record-Low.aspx) on the question of restrictions. However, that poll does state that the percentage of Americans calling themselves “pro-choice” is at an all-time low. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/34 "2012-11-07T15:24:09Z")
I think there are two questions here, and some posters are sort of talking past each other. Obviously the GOP didn’t want to talk about abortion during the general election. It’s not necessarily because pro-choice is more popular than pro-life (although the status quo seems to be a bit more popular than overturning Roe v. Wade) but because many of their candidates (including their VP) hold a particular position that is extremely unpopular (banning abortion even in cases of rape and incest). So, it seems to me that the GOP needs to moderate their abortion position to one which supports overturning Roe v. Wade and returning the issue to the states (which is unpopular but not disastrously so) but supports current law allowing for abortion in cases of rape and incest. I know that hurts with the absolutist pro-lifers, but it’s the only politically tenable position. That or they need to come up with a palatable rhetorical device that obscures their opposition to abortion of pregnancies resulting from rape or incest (and the Mourdock answer is decidedly not the right device). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/35 "2012-11-07T15:25:51Z")
Nevermind… I thought one poster was saying two different things. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/36 "2012-11-07T15:27:23Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > You said:And you would be wrong. > > [Here’s another cite.](http://www.gallup.com/poll/1576/Abortion.aspx) Did you actually read your own cite? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/37 "2012-11-07T15:31:13Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Did you actually read your own cite? Did you? Here is what Gallup says about the poll question I listed: > [@](#): > > Gallup’s longest-running measure of abortion views, established in 1975, asks Americans if abortion should be legal in all circumstances, legal only under certain circumstances, or illegal in all circumstances. Since 2001, at least half of Americans have consistently chosen the middle position, saying abortion should be legal under certain circumstances, and the 52% saying this today is similar to the 50% in May 2011. The 25% currently wanting abortion to be legal in all cases and the 20% in favor of making it illegal in all cases are also similar to last year’s findings. You said “It’s my impression that public support for restrictions on abortion has actually trended higher in recent years.” And you are wrong. Look at the chart: Since 1975, the results are almost always the same. You seem to think that what people call themselves (pro-choice or pro-life) is the same as “public support for restrictions on abortion” when it’s not. It’s about what people label themselves. The support on restrictions have remained unchanged for decades, practically. ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/38 "2012-11-07T15:31:23Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > I can’t see how allowing or banning abortion in the case of rape would have any effect at all on the likelihood of rape. It doesn’t. But as horrifying as rape is, being forced to carry and birth one’s rapist’s child is even worse. Supporting an abortion ban even in rape cases implies that women don’t deserve ANY autonomy about their own reproduction. At least people who are in favor of abortion bans for pregnancies that arise from consensual sex can use the logic that the woman accepted the risk of pregnancy when she decided to have sex. People who think women should not be allowed to abort a rapist’s fetus don’t believe that _any_ consent from the woman is necessary to justify using her body as an incubator. No, it’s not directly supporting rape, but it’s not acknowledging that the rape victim herself matters at all. The stupid part is that it’s a red herring anyway. It’s extremely unlikely that an abortion ban with a rape exception would matter, because it would take too long to legally prove the rape. Assuming a rape conviction is required, it would be easy to stall the legal process long enough for it to become moot. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/39 "2012-11-07T15:32:43Z")
I’m a pro choice Romney voter and I was thinking the same thing as the OP this morning. Maybe this is the wake up call that the party needs to drop abortion and religion from the platform and modernize. Young people are attracted to the small government, libertarian side of the party. But they are repulsed by the socially conservative side of it. I doubt it will happen, but I hope it does. Rand Paul 2016! ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/40 "2012-11-07T15:39:24Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Did you? Here is what Gallup says about the poll question I listed:You said “It’s my impression that public support for restrictions on abortion has actually trended higher in recent years.” And you are wrong. Look at the chart: Since 1975, the results are almost always the same. No, they’re not. If you compare to the high point of abortion support, it’s about 1993. At that time, the ratio of those who supported restrictions on abortion versus those who opposed restrictions on abortion was 61:34. As of the most recent poll, the ratio was 72:25. This supports my impression, which was that “public support for restrictions on abortion has actually trended higher in recent years”. I suppose you will argue that 1989-1997 were a blip, and that since then it’s been more or less constant. That’s a legtimate viewpoint, but my point remains. And in the context of this thread, there’s certainly nothing to indicate any new abortion support such that Republicans need to change their positions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214.md?page=3)