# Will the Republicans keep beating the abortion drum after this year's election? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 7, 2012, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214 "2012-11-07T14:01:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/61 "2012-11-07T18:10:08Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Well, Whitman did kind of write [a book](http://www.amazon.com/Its-My-Party-Too-America/dp/1594200408) about how the right was pushing her out of the Republican party. So that’s a shitty example. And it was his only example too. Huh. Funny. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/62 "2012-11-07T18:13:55Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Well, Whitman did kind of write [a book](http://www.amazon.com/Its-My-Party-Too-America/dp/1594200408) about how the right was pushing her out of the Republican party. I did notice, in the book description on your link “In the tradition of Democratic Senator Zell Miller’s national bestseller A National Party No More, which critiqued the Democratic party’s move to the far left …”. It’s the same dynamic on both sides of the aisle. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/63 "2012-11-07T18:14:50Z")
If they cut the pro-lifer vote from their base, where are they going to get their numbers from? There just aren’t enough economic Ayn Randians to win elections for them. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/64 "2012-11-07T18:20:15Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I did notice, in the book description on your link “In the tradition of Democratic Senator Zell Miller’s national bestseller A National Party No More, which critiqued the Democratic party’s move to the far left …”. > > It’s the same dynamic on both sides of the aisle. To be honest, I haven’t read exactly what Zell Miller thinks pushed him out of the Democratic party. Given that there still are prominent pro-life Democrats, I am initially skeptical that Miller’s exit shows that the Democratic position on abortion is a loser in the long term. On the other hand, Miller’s claim taken broadly is probably correct in a lot of ways. For example, there are a lot fewer Democrats openly in support of Jim Crow and racial segregation today than there were when Miller was in short pants. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/65 "2012-11-07T18:25:31Z")
[Republicans for Choice](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republicans_for_Choice) [Democrats for Life of America](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrats_for_Life_of_America) > [@Acsenray](#): > > To be honest, I haven’t read exactly what Zell Miller thinks pushed him out of the Democratic party. Given that there still are prominent pro-life Democrats, I am initially skeptical that Miller’s exit shows that the Democratic position on abortion is a loser in the long term. Well it’s equally unclear whether it was abortion specifically that pushed Whitman out. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/66 "2012-11-07T18:41:12Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > The GOP lost two Senates seats that should have been easy wins for them, in large part because their candidates got hamstrung by their own anti-abortion rhetoric. > > It seems that the Republicans are slowly realizing that this a losing issue, much like Democrats did with gun control back in the '90s. It’s something that a small part of their base is fervent about, but that most everyone by and large isn’t making a lot of noise over. And more and more often when the Republicans do try to make a big deal of it, they end up shooting themselves in the foot. > > Not that I think the GOP will of a sudden become pro-choice. I think they’ll still give lip service to the pro-lifers for many years to come. But, I can no longer see too many serious candidates expending a lot of political capital on this. > > So, what do you think about where they go with the issue from here on out? Republicans are victims of their own success to some extent. They were able to generate a lot of pro-life sentiment with notions of partial birth abortions and shit like that and then they passed the partial birth abortion ban and a lot of people figured that we had eliminated the most extreme abuses. Then, buoyed by their success on partial birth abortions, the pro-lifers decided the next logical progression was getting rid of the rape and incest exceptions to federal funding of abortions. Now they were the the face of extremism. Most people are in the middle on the abortion issue and they want to get rid of the edges. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > If they cut the pro-lifer vote from their base, where are they going to get their numbers from? There just aren’t enough economic Ayn Randians to win elections for them. THAT is the problem with the Republican party. Their coalition produices too many unelectable candidates. If Obama did nothing else, he brought together the black and gay community to a small degree. He brought together the black and hispanic community to a larger degree. The Democratic coalition tends to produce liberal but entirely electable candidates. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/67 "2012-11-07T20:16:04Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > To be honest, I haven’t read exactly what Zell Miller thinks pushed him out of the Democratic party. Given that there still are prominent pro-life Democrats, I am initially skeptical that Miller’s exit shows that the Democratic position on abortion is a loser in the long term. > > On the other hand, Miller’s claim taken broadly is probably correct in a lot of ways. For example, there are a lot fewer Democrats openly in support of Jim Crow and racial segregation today than there were when Miller was in short pants. As a Georgian, I need to point out to you that Miller’s nickname in Georgia politics is “Zig-zag Zell” Miller. he takes whatever tack he thinks will win him an advantage politically. There’s no reason to think his move to the Republicans was anything other than business as usual for Zell. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/68 "2012-11-07T20:37:50Z")
Speaking of beating a drum, this bit of glurge has been posted a lot lately: [http://www.thefulltimegirl.com/2012/10/15/life-on-earth/](http://www.thefulltimegirl.com/2012/10/15/life-on-earth/) I think it’s a dumb question and a poor analogy. So there’s a fetal heartbeat. Okay. People being kept alive by machines have heartbeats. If they’re brain dead, what sort of life is it? My friend’s niece gave birth to a girl with just a bit of brain stem but no brain. She had a heartbeat and lung function but none of the 5 senses. It was like trying to interact with a doll, as he told me. She lasted a year and a half in that condition, but what kind of life was that? 'The Pubs who rant about abortion never seem to consider that there could be severe defects in the womb and that there’s more to quality of life than a heartbeat. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/69 "2012-11-08T12:23:52Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Something which I have noted here over and over. The two groups Republicans do worse among-- Blacks and Hispanics-- are far closer to the GOP than to the Democrats on the abortion issue. No need to [cover for your brethren Omg](http://publicreligion.org/research/2012/07/african-american-and-hispanic-reproductive-issues-survey/). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/70 "2012-11-09T19:33:44Z")
I’m sorry, but you guys are horribly wrong if you think dropping abortion will help. Every single person I know who votes Republican does so because they are pro life, and they’ve flat out told me this. I think you guys on this board vastly overestimate the number of financial conservatives. Republican and Christian are practically considered synonymous in most of the red states. And the two things every cites is the party’s anti-SSM and pro-life stance. ---
**Author:** ![Lago\_Ys-Transform](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a587f6/32.png) [@Lago\_Ys-Transform](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lago_Ys-Transform)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/71 "2012-11-09T19:48:10Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Most people are in the middle on the abortion issue and they want to get rid of the edges. The people in the middle of the abortion issue are idiotic and incoherent then. The anti-rape/incest exception stance is _logically and morally inconsistent_. I don’t know whether pro-lifers embody that contradiction because they don’t have a well thought-out stance on that issue or they’re aware that it makes them look like assholes. And I don’t care. I personally find the position that it’s okay to kill babies only if the mother meets the maximum societal standards of sympathy to be internalized slut-shaming. Why do children rape/incest have less of a right to live than ones born into more stable homes? Should we kill orphans who score low on IQ tests or had their bodies ravaged by fetal alcohol syndrome? To me the position of a typical pro-lifer is much more vile than Mourdock and Donnelly’s stance. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/72 "2012-11-09T19:51:27Z")
> [@Lago\_Ys-Transform](#): > > The people in the middle of the abortion issue are idiotic and incoherent then. The anti-rape/incest exception stance is _logically and morally inconsistent_. > > I don’t know whether pro-lifers embody that contradiction because they don’t have a well thought-out stance on that issue or they’re aware that it makes them look like assholes. And I don’t care. I personally find the position that it’s okay to kill babies only if the mother meets the maximum societal standards of sympathy to be internalized slut-shaming. Why do children rape/incest have less of a right to live than ones born into more stable homes? Should we kill orphans who score low on IQ tests or had their bodies ravaged by fetal alcohol syndrome? > > To me the position of a typical pro-lifer is much more vile than Mourdock and Donnelly’s stance. Despite what most pro-lifers might say when comparing abortion to murder, I think most of them believe abortion is very wrong _but not on the level with murder_. Otherwise they would oppose it even in cases of rape- but most don’t. It becomes logically consistent if you assume that while they think abortion is wrong, they think it’s more wrong to force a rape victim to bear her rapist’s child. ---
**Author:** ![Feyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Feyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feyrat)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/73 "2012-11-09T20:05:33Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > Speaking of beating a drum, this bit of glurge has been posted a lot lately: > > [http://www.thefulltimegirl.com/2012/10/15/life-on-earth/](http://www.thefulltimegirl.com/2012/10/15/life-on-earth/) > > I think it’s a dumb question and a poor analogy. > > So there’s a fetal heartbeat. Okay. This is a constant anti-abortion strawman. I know very, very few pro-choice people who say a fetus/embryo/unborn isn’t ALIVE. It’s just not a PERSON. ---
**Author:** ![Lago\_Ys-Transform](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a587f6/32.png) [@Lago\_Ys-Transform](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lago_Ys-Transform)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/74 "2012-11-09T20:13:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Despite what most pro-lifers might say when comparing abortion to murder, I think most of them believe abortion is very wrong but not on the level with murder. Why the hell not? > [@](#): > > It becomes logically consistent if you assume that while they think abortion is wrong, they think it’s more wrong to force a rape victim to bear her rapist’s child. Even if it’s not a crime on the level of murder, where does the child’s rights come into play? Assault isn’t on the level of murder either, but I wouldn’t and shouldn’t get a reduced jail sentence for beating up a kid if they have a history of juvenile delinquency and/or autism. Nor if I beat up the kid because my grandparents just died or I lost my job or I learned I had a case of terminal cancer. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/75 "2012-11-09T20:27:00Z")
> [@Lago\_Ys-Transform](#): > > Even if it’s not a crime on the level of murder, where does the child’s rights come into play? Assault isn’t on the level of murder either, but I wouldn’t and shouldn’t get a reduced jail sentence for beating up a kid if they have a history of juvenile delinquency and/or autism. Nor if I beat up the kid because my grandparents just died or I lost my job or I learned I had a case of terminal cancer. Because the “child’s” rights don’t trump those of the mother, who is unequivocally a person and citizen and sentient being. Outlawing abortion is tantamount to enslaving every woman who becomes pregnant, forcing them to endure physical, financial, and psychological hardship - and why? Because it offends your religious sensibilities to allow them to do otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Lago\_Ys-Transform](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a587f6/32.png) [@Lago\_Ys-Transform](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lago_Ys-Transform)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/76 "2012-11-09T20:36:09Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Because the “child’s” rights don’t trump those of the mother, who is unequivocally a person and citizen and sentient being. Outlawing abortion is tantamount to enslaving every woman who becomes pregnant, forcing them to endure physical, financial, and psychological hardship - and why? Because it offends your religious sensibilities to allow them to do otherwise. Err, I agree. I’m just saying that the ‘no exceptions except for the life of the mother’ pro-lifers are viewed as vile and hopeless dinosaurs while the ‘and also if rape/incest was involved!’ pro-lifers are viewed as reasonable. And I claim that the logic is _completely backwards_. It’s a reflection of our society’s twisted sexual politics rather than a logically coherent stance. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/77 "2012-11-09T21:10:28Z")
I think OMG is right. Democrats do keep bringing up abortion and Republicans try to avoid the subject. And for the obvious reasons discussed in the OP. The Democrats realize many Republicans have both pro-life and pro-choice supporters and by asking these Republicans what their position is on abortion, the Democrats know the Republican will be forced to alienate some of their supporters. That’s just good politics. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/78 "2012-11-09T21:58:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think OMG is right. Democrats do keep bringing up abortion and Republicans try to avoid the subject. And for the obvious reasons discussed in the OP. The Democrats realize many Republicans have both pro-life and pro-choice supporters and by asking these Republicans what their position is on abortion, the Democrats know the Republican will be forced to alienate some of their supporters. That’s just good politics. Agreed. Being upset with the Democrats because they keep bringing up some unpopular opinions/stances/policies of their Republican opponents is ridiculous on its face. Little Nemo, I really feel like you are my doppleganger sometimes on these boards. Pretty much everything I’ve ever seen you write I agree with (other than labeling myself a moderate Republican, which is probably just tautology). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/79 "2012-11-09T23:24:58Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Little Nemo, I really feel like you are my doppleganger sometimes on these boards. Pretty much everything I’ve ever seen you write I agree with (other than labeling myself a moderate Republican, which is probably just tautology). Well, I’m a New York Republican. In Texas terms that makes me a Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/80 "2012-11-09T23:33:01Z")
Here is a discussion group (on Fox, of course) which claims that Romney lost in part because single women are so interested in abortion and birth control that they don’t care about other things. Rush Limbaugh said that Republicans need to “start our own abortion industry” to get women’s vote. > **[Conservative Pundits Lash Out At Single Female Voters](https://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/11/09/why_did_romney_lose_fox_news_blames_single_women.html)** > > Now that the shock of losing has settled in, the conservative media has moved on to the important task of castigating the various demographics that bro ... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214.md?page=5)