# Will the Republicans keep beating the abortion drum after this year's election? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 7, 2012, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214 "2012-11-07T14:01:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/81 "2012-11-09T23:40:50Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > The problem is that the GOP can’t do that. Not “doesn’t want to” – _can’t_. By threatening to cut off Todd Akin if he refused to step aside, and then caving and funneling money to him anyway, the party leadership left itself with zero, zip, nil, and nada in the way of leverage over the whack-a-doodle Talibornagains. As a result, the worst of the whack-a-doodles become the _de facto_ voice of the party. I agree, that was a serious mistake. Party discipline has long been a major strength of the Republicans, and that seems to be breaking apart. > [@Lago\_Ys-Transform](#): > > Even if it’s not a crime on the level of murder, where does the child’s rights come into play? Nowhere, because it isn’t a “child”, it’s a _thing_. Children have rights because they are thinking, feeling beings; an embryo isn’t. You might as well block a kidney donation with the excuse of “what about the rights of the kidney?!” ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/82 "2012-11-10T01:01:55Z")
It’s a good wedge issue for them, certainly better than marriage equality which was Rove’s big wedge issue in 2004. They just need to allow some reasonable exceptions and cut back on the invasive testing requirements. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/83 "2012-11-10T05:16:03Z")
I think the problem is that there’s really three sides to the abortion issue. 1. “I think abortions are completely wrong and I think the government should make them illegal.” 2. “I have no problems with abortions whatsoever. I don’t see any moral issue being involved. Having an abortion is no different than having an appendectomy.” 3. “Oh man, abortions, now there’s a tough one. Personally, I don’t like the idea of abortions and I think we should be doing all we can to reduce the number of abortions that people have. But ultimately, it’s a decision that has to be made by the people involved and I don’t want to see the government telling people what they can do.” Now some religious conservatives want to act like everyone is either in the first or second group - and all Democrats are in the second. But I think the reality is that most people are in the third group - they don’t like abortions but they don’t want them to be illegal. Call them reluctantly pro-choice. And this is the position I think most Democrats and a lot of Republicans actually hold. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/84 "2012-11-10T05:53:00Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think the problem is that there’s really three sides to the abortion issue. > > 1. “I think abortions are completely wrong and I think the government should make them illegal.” > 2. “I have no problems with abortions whatsoever. I don’t see any moral issue being involved. Having an abortion is no different than having an appendectomy.” > 3. “Oh man, abortions, now there’s a tough one. Personally, I don’t like the idea of abortions and I think we should be doing all we can to reduce the number of abortions that people have. But ultimately, it’s a decision that has to be made by the people involved and I don’t want to see the government telling people what they can do.” > > Now some religious conservatives want to act like everyone is either in the first or second group - and all Democrats are in the second. But I think the reality is that most people are in the third group - they don’t like abortions but they don’t want them to be illegal. Call them reluctantly pro-choice. And this is the position I think most Democrats and a lot of Republicans actually hold. I think you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/85 "2012-11-10T06:17:37Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > I think you’re right. As do I. Most sane people are in camp #3. (I consider myself sane) ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/86 "2012-11-10T06:32:39Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think OMG is right. Democrats do keep bringing up abortion and Republicans try to avoid the subject, Not even - Mitt didn’t try to avoid the subject, _exactly_ - he was “up front” about it. Look, it’s [right here](http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mittromney.com%2Fissues%2Fvalues&ei=vPGdUIO-BajfigK1moHgCg&usg=AFQjCNGxVk1GqWVwmVtrAlY8yUFg0JouCA) on his campaign website: > [@](#): > > Mitt Romney is pro-life. He believes it speaks well of the country that almost all Americans recognize that abortion is a problem. And in the quiet of conscience, people of both political parties know that more than a million abortions a year cannot be squared with the good heart of America. > > Mitt believes that life begins at conception and wishes that the laws of our nation reflected that view. But while the nation remains so divided, he believes that the right next step is for the Supreme Court to overturn Roe v. Wade – a case of blatant judicial activism that took a decision that should be left to the people and placed it in the hands of unelected judges. With Roe overturned, states will be empowered through the democratic process to determine their own abortion laws and not have them dictated by judicial mandate. > > Mitt supports the Hyde Amendment, which broadly bars the use of federal funds for abortions. As president, he will end federal funding for abortion advocates like Planned Parenthood. Of course, it’s not “up front” in the sense that anyone can read it - you had to pretend that it’s something you probably already want to hear, by subscribing to his campaign first. I love that that pledge of his (defunding “abortion advocates” like Planned Parenthood) would have inevitably, 100%, axiomatically, and without any other possibility caused a dramatic increase in abortions. “Let Detroit go bankrupt! Let the poor get pregnant! Fuck it, just let entropy run roughshod over everything!” ---
**Author:** ![Lago\_Ys-Transform](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a587f6/32.png) [@Lago\_Ys-Transform](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lago_Ys-Transform)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/87 "2012-11-10T06:34:56Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > As do I. Most sane people are in camp #3. (I consider myself sane) I personally have a modest amount of contempt for people in camp #3. That kind of waffling only serves to undermine your point and enable people who _actually_ oppose your position. And frankly the line between ‘pro-life except for abortion/incest’ and ‘ugggghhhh abortions are SO ICKY but I guess they’re okay _if it’s really that serious_’ is a lot more fine than you think. ---
**Author:** ![Feyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Feyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feyrat)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/88 "2012-11-10T06:44:50Z")
My biggest problem with the anti-abortion camp (I refuse to call them pro-life because they’re not) is that there’s an enormous overlap with the anti-BC camp. If you are anti-abortion AND anti-birth control, you’re not trying to reduce abortions, you’re just trying to reduce SEX. And doing that by punishing women for having it. If the anti-abortion folks were REALLY pro-life, they’d be all for sex ed, free/cheap birth control, free/cheap pre-natal care, streamlined adoption, better foster care oversight, and better care for women with new children. But those aren’t laws they’re interested in. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/89 "2012-11-10T06:45:02Z")
**Lago** -I have a congenital disability, and I will go to my grave beliving that I would’ve been aborted had that fact been known ahead of time. (I’m a 34 y/o American) ---
**Author:** ![Feyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Feyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feyrat)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/90 "2012-11-10T07:02:22Z")
> [@Lago\_Ys-Transform](#): > > I personally have a modest amount of contempt for people in camp #3. > > That kind of waffling only serves to undermine your point and enable people who _actually_ oppose your position. And frankly the line between ‘pro-life except for abortion/incest’ and ‘ugggghhhh abortions are SO ICKY but I guess they’re okay _if it’s really that serious_’ is a lot more fine than you think. So, you have _contempt_ for people whose actual position is “you mind your business, I’ll mind mine.” Really? Because the people who are really opposed to my position are the people who think they need to be involved in the decisions of others when it has nothing to do with them. I don’t like abortions, I don’t want one, I might have one, you can have one if you want. That’s my position. I fail to see the angle where that deserves contempt. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/91 "2012-11-10T07:38:18Z")
> [@Lago\_Ys-Transform](#): > > I personally have a modest amount of contempt for people in camp #3. > > That kind of waffling only serves to undermine your point and enable people who _actually_ oppose your position. And frankly the line between ‘pro-life except for abortion/incest’ and ‘ugggghhhh abortions are SO ICKY but I guess they’re okay _if it’s really that serious_’ is a lot more fine than you think. But which side do you take on this issue? Do you think the majority has the right to tell an individual she can’t have an abortion or do you think the majority has the right to tell an individual she must have an abortion? But policies are in effect in some countries. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/92 "2012-11-10T07:42:32Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > Not even - Mitt didn’t try to avoid the subject, _exactly_ - he was “up front” about it. Look, it’s [right here](http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mittromney.com%2Fissues%2Fvalues&ei=vPGdUIO-BajfigK1moHgCg&usg=AFQjCNGxVk1GqWVwmVtrAlY8yUFg0JouCA) on his campaign website “Abortions for everyone!” [boos] “Very well, no abortions for anyone!” [boos] “Hmm, abortions for some, miniature American flags for others!” ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/93 "2012-11-10T08:33:57Z")
> [@Lago\_Ys-Transform](#): > > I personally have a modest amount of contempt for people in camp #3. > > That kind of waffling only serves to undermine your point and enable people who _actually_ oppose your position. And frankly the line between ‘pro-life except for abortion/incest’ and ‘ugggghhhh abortions are SO ICKY but I guess they’re okay _if it’s really that serious_’ is a lot more fine than you think. Maybe people in position 3 are humble enough not to think they know the answer well enough to enforce it on other people? That is why position 1 is so tied to religion - something which claims to have the ultimate answer. As for me, I don’t thin abortion is icky, just inefficient and overly expensive, and would much prefer prevention. That many or most of the people in position 1 oppose sex education and easy access to birth control speaks volumes, ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/94 "2012-11-10T14:32:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Despite what most pro-lifers might say when comparing abortion to murder, I think most of them believe abortion is very wrong _but not on the level with murder_. Otherwise they would oppose it even in cases of rape- but most don’t. It becomes logically consistent if you assume that while they think abortion is wrong, they think it’s more wrong to force a rape victim to bear her rapist’s child. Personally, I have absolutely no concerns about the wellbeing of the mother. If I did, why would I care whether the foetus was the product of a rape or performance errors in using birth control? In either scenario, the mother is distraught, considers herself incapable of raising the child and would far rather abort than bring the child to term and give it up for adoption. The reason why I support rape exceptions is that there’s likely a genetic predisposition towards criminality. Other restrictions on abortions are just useful tools to hamper the emancipation of women. Granting further freedoms to women would likely result in a political system like Icelands or Norways. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/95 "2012-11-10T14:50:47Z")
Beyond setting out a basic medical framework, I have no idea why this is the business of Government, or anyone else for that matter. Get on with your own lives. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/96 "2012-11-10T16:13:30Z")
> [@Feyrat](#): > > My biggest problem with the anti-abortion camp (I refuse to call them pro-life because they’re not) is that there’s an enormous overlap with the anti-BC camp. If you are anti-abortion AND anti-birth control, you’re not trying to reduce abortions, you’re just trying to reduce SEX. And doing that by punishing women for having it. They’re not trying to \*reduce \*sex; they’re trying to _ **control** _ sex, and by extension, women. You are right about one thing though. They’re not pro-life. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/97 "2012-11-10T17:50:34Z")
Interesting article in today’s NY Times about the waning political influence of evangelicals: [http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/10/us/politics/christian-conservatives-failed-to-sway-voters.html?hp&\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/10/us/politics/christian-conservatives-failed-to-sway-voters.html?hp&_r=0) > [@](#): > > Conservative Christian leaders said that they would intensify their efforts to make their case, but were just beginning to discuss how to proceed. “We’re not going away, we just need to recalibrate,” said Bob Vander Plaats, president and chief executive of The Family Leader, an evangelical organization in Iowa. > > The election results are just one indication of larger trends in American religion that Christian conservatives are still digesting, political analysts say. Americans who have no religious affiliation — pollsters call them the “nones” — are now about one-fifth of the population over all, according to a study released last month by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life. > > The younger generation is even less religious: about one-third of Americans ages 18 to 22 say they are either atheists, agnostics or nothing in particular. Americans who are secular are far more likely to vote for liberal candidates and for same-sex marriage. Seventy percent of those who said they had no religion voted for Mr. Obama, according to exit polls conducted by Edison Research. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/98 "2012-11-10T18:06:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think the problem is that there’s really three sides to the abortion issue. > > 1. “I think abortions are completely wrong and I think the government should make them illegal.” > 2. “I have no problems with abortions whatsoever. I don’t see any moral issue being involved. Having an abortion is no different than having an appendectomy.” > 3. “Oh man, abortions, now there’s a tough one. Personally, I don’t like the idea of abortions and I think we should be doing all we can to reduce the number of abortions that people have. But ultimately, it’s a decision that has to be made by the people involved and I don’t want to see the government telling people what they can do.” > > Now some religious conservatives want to act like everyone is either in the first or second group - and all Democrats are in the second. But I think the reality is that most people are in the third group - they don’t like abortions but they don’t want them to be illegal. Call them reluctantly pro-choice. And this is the position I think most Democrats and a lot of Republicans actually hold. “Reluctantly pro-choice”? Why reluctantly? You’ve pretty much laid things out well, but you have to then qualify the primary motivations of pretty much every pro-choice person? It’s kind of why the debate is framed that way. There’s little reluctance in it, and very few who are blithely indifferent or otherwise pro-abortion. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/99 "2012-11-10T18:12:40Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > It’s a good wedge issue for them, certainly better than marriage equality which was Rove’s big wedge issue in 2004. They just need to allow some reasonable exceptions and cut back on the invasive testing requirements. Once they do that, what’s left? The only way to outlaw a procedure that has Constitutional protection is to change the Constitution or get the SCOTUS to overrule itself. The former is difficult (and given this issue’s contentiousness, probably impossible - see attempts at Personhood Amendments for an example) and the latter is one reason why who is in the white House is very important, especially since the court’s makeup now is as conservative as it has ever been, arguably. So what’s a young pro-life rep at the state level to do? Dodge Roe v. Wade by banning late term abortions, creating TRAP Laws - regulations that are only for abortion clinics to contend with which lawmakers admit are there only to make things impossible for abortion clinics to exist - force unnecessary and sometimes invasive medical procedures to all women seeking abortions, long waiting periods… By any means necessary. Well, any means except for the things which actually do lower abortion rates: Comprehensive age-appropriate sex education, readily available birth control, healthcare for poor pregnant women and other support. Those things are almost as bad as an abortion in the eyes of a huge chunk of the anti-abortion crowd. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214/100 "2012-11-10T18:23:02Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > **Lago** -I have a congenital disability, and I will go to my grave beliving that I would’ve been aborted had that fact been known ahead of time. (I’m a 34 y/o American) In a world where abortion is readily available and prenatal testing is comprehensive, I would be a little happier knowing that my mother kept me in spite of her ability to have an abortion rather than someone else told her that once she was pregnant, she had to keep it no matter what. In one case, I am truly, truly wanted. In another, who knows? In reality, it means little to me. I cannot mourn the loss of a person who never existed and if I am that person, then I cannot mourn anything since I never existed. The fact that I am doesn’t change that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-republicans-keep-beating-the-abortion-drum-after-this-years-election/640214.md?page=6)