# Will the SCOTUS DOMA ruling prompt backlash in the red states? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 26, 2013, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scotus-doma-ruling-prompt-backlash-in-the-red-states/661991 "2013-06-26T22:49:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scotus-doma-ruling-prompt-backlash-in-the-red-states/661991/1 "2013-06-26T22:49:27Z")
My guess is yes. Unless my understanding of the ruling is incorrect, it is now left in the hands of the states to decide their individual policies on SSM. I was amazed how blatant, ugly racism found a resurgence after the election of a (half-) African American. I wonder if the effective striking down of DOMA will motivate the anti-gay base of (oh, let’s just say one of two major American political parties) and we’ll see a rash of proposed amendments to state constitutions as their only remaining bulwark against “teh gays” during the 2014 midterm elections. I say 2014 because given the [steady acceptance](http://www.people-press.org/2013/03/20/growing-support-for-gay-marriage-changed-minds-and-changing-demographics/) of LGBTQVWXYZ 😉 year over year. The longer they wait, the less chance they have of it passing the electorate. This will no doubt be in contrast to other states specifically granting SSM official recognition. Hell, I wonder if a single state could even have dueling ballot initiatives, respectively recognizing and banning SSM? (This is all beside the point that — I have NO doubt — that every narrow-minded, backwards state that has SSM prohibitions on their books will _eventually_ get around to sheepishly pulling them off.) Anyway, what do you think? ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scotus-doma-ruling-prompt-backlash-in-the-red-states/661991/2 "2013-06-26T22:57:26Z")
Pretty much every single red state (all of the South, the band of western midwest states from OK to ND, AZ, UT, WY, MT, ID, and AK) already have same-sex marriage bans in their state constitutions, so I don’t see what else they can do. WY is the one state that banned gay marriage by statute rather than constitutionally. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scotus-doma-ruling-prompt-backlash-in-the-red-states/661991/3 "2013-06-26T22:59:40Z")
Better you should ask about backlash from the VRA ruling. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scotus-doma-ruling-prompt-backlash-in-the-red-states/661991/4 "2013-06-26T23:04:29Z")
As I understand it, the DOMA decision doesn’t change anything for states where same-sex marriage is illegal. Marriage policy has always been up to the states and the DOMA decision affirms that. And, as Lamar points out, there’s not much more they can do that hasn’t already been done. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scotus-doma-ruling-prompt-backlash-in-the-red-states/661991/5 "2013-06-26T23:07:41Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > Pretty much every single red state (all of the South, the band of western midwest states from OK to ND, AZ, UT, WY, MT, ID, and AK) already have same-sex marriage bans in their state constitutions, so I don’t see what else they can do. WY is the one state that banned gay marriage by statute rather than constitutionally. Yep, every state won by Romney\* already prohibits same-sex marriage. In addition to Wyoming, Indiana and West Virginia prohibit it via statute rather than constitutional amendment, so I suppose those states could pass an amendment. - Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas , Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, West Virginia, Wyoming ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scotus-doma-ruling-prompt-backlash-in-the-red-states/661991/6 "2013-06-26T23:11:59Z")
Thanks for the ignorance-smashing. For some reason, I hadn’t realized that SSM bans were so abundant. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scotus-doma-ruling-prompt-backlash-in-the-red-states/661991/7 "2013-06-26T23:12:01Z")
The backlash was ten years early. ---
**Author:** ![RickG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rickg/32/5174_2.png) [@RickG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickG)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scotus-doma-ruling-prompt-backlash-in-the-red-states/661991/8 "2013-06-26T23:20:43Z")
> [@ctnguy](#): > > As I understand it, the DOMA decision doesn’t change anything for states where same-sex marriage is illegal. Marriage policy has always been up to the states and the DOMA decision affirms that. Sure, but _Loving_ did strike down anti-miscegenation laws, forcing the holdout states to allow “mixed-race” marriages. So there’s precedent for SCOTUS to interfere a bit with the state marriage laws. Given that they didn’t take up the question of the part of DOMA that allows States to refuse to recognized same-sex marriages from other States, seems only a matter of time before they have to deal with a case generated by a gay couple moving from, say, Maryland across the Potomac to Virginia. What’s the over-under on how soon that happens? ---
**Author:** ![missred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/missred/32/14096_2.png) [@missred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missred)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scotus-doma-ruling-prompt-backlash-in-the-red-states/661991/9 "2013-06-26T23:25:41Z")
I think what will be telling will be the effect this has on the military. With DOMA struck down and the US armed forces recognizing same sex marriages performed in states where legal and now having same sex spouses eligible for benefits, the federal government will have some influence on the decisions that individual states make. Currently, the Army is slated to eliminate 80,000 soldiers from its roster. Bases will be downsizing, affecting the economy of the states where they are located. Uncle Sam influence states to equalize marriage laws for more favorable consideration to keep troops. The prospect of making money has affected other laws and statutes once considered immoral by the religious right. I have no expectations of this issue being any different. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scotus-doma-ruling-prompt-backlash-in-the-red-states/661991/10 "2013-06-26T23:28:17Z")
What makes you think Congress will do that? Base closures aren’t controlled by the POTUS. ---
**Author:** ![missred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/missred/32/14096_2.png) [@missred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missred)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scotus-doma-ruling-prompt-backlash-in-the-red-states/661991/11 "2013-06-26T23:30:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What makes you think Congress will do that? Base closures aren’t controlled by the POTUS. No, but they are controlled by the military. The commander in chief does have some influence there. Prior to Loving v. Virginia, the military did have some influence in that realm. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scotus-doma-ruling-prompt-backlash-in-the-red-states/661991/12 "2013-06-26T23:53:02Z")
They are controlled by Congress. The DoD has to ask if it can close permanent installations. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scotus-doma-ruling-prompt-backlash-in-the-red-states/661991/13 "2013-06-27T00:03:24Z")
> [@ctnguy](#): > > …And, as Lamar points out, there’s not much more they can do that hasn’t already been done. At this point the only thing left would be for a state to do something like actually criminalize commitment ceremonies where the participants use words like marriage, husband, wife, etc. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scotus-doma-ruling-prompt-backlash-in-the-red-states/661991/14 "2013-06-27T12:40:54Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > At this point the only thing left would be for a state to do something like actually criminalize commitment ceremonies where the participants use words like marriage, husband, wife, etc. Which would be struck down as a violation of the 1st amendment. What’s going to happen next is that someone is going to challenge a particular state’s anti-SSM laws in federal court. And then the Block Robed Ones will have to actually make a decision instead of just punting. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scotus-doma-ruling-prompt-backlash-in-the-red-states/661991/15 "2013-06-27T15:24:54Z")
If the S.Ct were to mandate nationwide that providing traditional marriage but not SSM is unconstitututional, state governments that oppose SSM would presumably have the option of eliminating all civil marriage within the state. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scotus-doma-ruling-prompt-backlash-in-the-red-states/661991/16 "2013-06-27T15:31:36Z")
While that would _seem_ to be in line with [existing precedent](http://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2678&context=wmlr), I don’t think that’s correct. It would satisfy the equal protection argument but not the underlying premise that marriage is a fundamental right. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scotus-doma-ruling-prompt-backlash-in-the-red-states/661991/17 "2013-06-27T15:32:55Z")
> [@missred](#): > > I think what will be telling will be the effect this has on the military. With DOMA struck down and the US armed forces recognizing same sex marriages performed in states where legal and now having same sex spouses eligible for benefits, the federal government will have some influence on the decisions that individual states make. It is not just the military. It is all federal employees. A federal employee in a SSM in one state (that recognizes SSM) moves to another state where it is not recognized. Their rights under federal law will not change. However, the receiving state’s laws means they will not be afford the same state-level rights as they enjoyed them in the state they just left. It remains to be seen how that conundrum is addressed. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scotus-doma-ruling-prompt-backlash-in-the-red-states/661991/18 "2013-06-27T15:37:11Z")
Why would the Court’s finding (clear enough to us mere mortals) that discrimination against gays in marriage is unconstitutional at the federal level \*not \*also apply to the states? I understood the 14th Amendment was incorporated. Or is Kennedy really that bad a writer/reasoner as to leave the issue open? ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scotus-doma-ruling-prompt-backlash-in-the-red-states/661991/19 "2013-06-27T15:40:44Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > If the S.Ct were to mandate nationwide that providing traditional marriage but not SSM is unconstitututional, state governments that oppose SSM would presumably have the option of eliminating all civil marriage within the state. So **that’s** how gay marriage threatens straight marraige! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scotus-doma-ruling-prompt-backlash-in-the-red-states/661991/20 "2013-06-27T15:47:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What’s going to happen next is that someone is going to challenge a particular state’s anti-SSM laws in federal court. And then the Block Robed Ones will have to actually make a decision instead of just punting. I agree this is the likely next thing of substance to happen on this issue. As already mentioned it will take some time to work its way through the courts and up to SCOTUS. In the meantime we are probably going to see and hear a fair amount of nonsense about amending the Federal Constitution to ban SSM. In fact, [Rep Huelskamp isn’t losing any time bringing the topic up.](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/26/republican-vows-to-ban-same-sex-marriage-nationwide-following-supreme-court-ruling/) Party leaders aren’t running to jump on his band wagon but I’m sure there will be plenty of others (Palin, Bachman, Gohmert) who will use it to stir up the faithful. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scotus-doma-ruling-prompt-backlash-in-the-red-states/661991.md?page=2)