# Will the SCOYUS decision on gay marriage affect the Presidential election? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 27, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scoyus-decision-on-gay-marriage-affect-the-presidential-election/723653 "2015-06-27T20:42:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scoyus-decision-on-gay-marriage-affect-the-presidential-election/723653/61 "2015-06-29T20:25:50Z")
> [@bup](#): > > In case it’s not clear, I respect your position. I haven’t paid enough attention to know if I agree that the 14th amendment means that all states must issue marriage licenses. I thought the question before the court was only if a state had to \*recognize \*a marriage another state called legitimate. > > But 'scare ‘em to the polls!’ messages tend toward the visceral. There were 2 questions before the court. The one you mention and the other one, which is whether all states must allow SSM. > [@Elvis](#): > > And the reason there aren’t that many is that most of us are aware we’d probably still have segregated schools if the courts had not stepped in and enforced equal protection. That would be an interesting observation if I had said I thought the Courts overstepped their bounds in _Brown_. But I didn’t. > [@](#): > > What’s wrong with it, anyway, other than sloppy writing and avoiding assigning a level of scrutiny? What’s wrong with it is NOT ASSIGNING A LEVEL OF SCRUTINY. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scoyus-decision-on-gay-marriage-affect-the-presidential-election/723653/62 "2015-06-29T20:36:18Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That would be an interesting observation if I had said I thought the Courts overstepped their bounds in _Brown_. But I didn’t. You did say you wish the states and the legislatures had done it themselves. But they weren’t going to. Same as with desegregation. The courts do have a role to play in our system. You don’t seem to understand that. > [@](#): > > What’s wrong with it is NOT ASSIGNING A LEVEL OF SCRUTINY. We’re pretty much out of what else it could be. You’re upset that the court played its role in enforcing the Constitution, but that concern is not a valid one. So what is it? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scoyus-decision-on-gay-marriage-affect-the-presidential-election/723653/63 "2015-06-29T20:58:35Z")
No, he means that’s the problem: Kennedy managed to write a due process decision without discussing the proper level of scrutiny at all. So gays are still very much in limbo on all issues other than marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scoyus-decision-on-gay-marriage-affect-the-presidential-election/723653/64 "2015-06-29T21:33:50Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > What could a candidate promise to do to reverse the tide? [You’d be amazed.](http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/michigan/2015/06/28/gay-marriage-foes/29446139/) In Michigan > [@](#): > > Michigan state Rep. Todd Courser, R-Lapeer, earlier this month introduced a set of bills mandating that same-sex couples seeking to marry in Michigan can only be married by pastors and other clergy and not by government officials. > > “It would take officiating out of the hands of government officials and put it back into the hands of religious officiates,” Courser said about the bill. [In Louisiana](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/28/states-gay-marriage_n_7683480.html) > [@](#): > > Louisiana Attorney General Buddy Caldwell (R) claimed that because the Supreme Court’s ruling did not include an official order for states to begin issuing marriage licenses to gay couples, “there is not yet a legal requirement for officials to issue marriage licenses or perform marriages for same-sex couples in Louisiana.” Parish and city clerks were instructed to hold off on issuing licenses for 25 days, the amount of time states are allowed to appeal the Court’s ruling. And [in Mississippi](http://www.clarionledger.com/story/politicalledger/2015/06/26/bryant-gay-marriage/29327433/) > [@](#): > > U.S. Sens. Roger Wicker and Thad Cochran expressed concerns the ruling might result in discrimination against individuals or organizations that oppose same-sex marriage. > > Wicker said he has co-sponsored the “First Amendment Defense Act” that would prevent the federal government from discriminating against “any individual or institution that defines marriage as a union of one man and one woman.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scoyus-decision-on-gay-marriage-affect-the-presidential-election/723653/65 "2015-06-29T22:55:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You did say you wish the states and the legislatures had done it themselves. But they weren’t going to. Same as with desegregation. > The courts do have a role to play in our system. You don’t seem to understand that. And of course I never said the courts don’t have a role to play in our system, so I’m not sure why you would draw that conclusion. > [@](#): > > We’re pretty much out of what else it could be. You’re upset that the court played its role in enforcing the Constitution, but that concern is not a valid one. So what is it? I’m not upset. I disagree with the court, but I don’t think the walls of civilization are going to tumble down. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scoyus-decision-on-gay-marriage-affect-the-presidential-election/723653/66 "2015-06-29T23:33:13Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > We’ll see what happens when companies start firing people because they get married. Or when people refuse to sell their house to a gay couple. Republicans will resist all attempts to end these discriminatory acts. This is a legitimate concern. I only hope that as this occurrs, these places of business are publicly “outed”. How ironic. As outraged as I was (am) about Indiana’s “Religious Freedom” law, I’m also encouraged that that shit blew up in their face. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scoyus-decision-on-gay-marriage-affect-the-presidential-election/723653/67 "2015-06-29T23:57:26Z")
[Thanks to NPR:](http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/06/29/418398912/cruz-opposition-to-gay-marriage-will-be-front-and-center-in-2016-campaign) > [@](#): > > Texas Sen. Ted Cruz intends to make his opposition to the Supreme Court’s decision last week to legalize same-sex marriage nationwide “front and center” in his presidential campaign. > > In an interview with Morning Edition host Steve Inskeep on Sunday in New York City, the GOP presidential hopeful doubled down on his belief that the court had overstepped its bounds in both the marriage decision and in upholding Obamacare. And as a result, Cruz said, the justices should be subject to elections and lose their lifetime appointments. > > “This week in response to both of these decisions, I have called for another constitutional amendment — this one that would make members of the Supreme Court subject to periodic judicial retention elections,” said Cruz. He’s just full of good ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scoyus-decision-on-gay-marriage-affect-the-presidential-election/723653/68 "2015-06-30T00:11:06Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > He’s just full of good ideas. I’m not, actually, totally opposed to the idea of retention elections for judges. I’ll simply note that he may be expecting too much. While three judges in Iowa lost retention votes in 2010 following their vote on same sex marriage, it actually remained the law. Also, a retention vote for Supreme Court judges would be nationwide, and Democrats outpolled Republicans in 2014. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scoyus-decision-on-gay-marriage-affect-the-presidential-election/723653/69 "2015-06-30T00:50:32Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I’m not, actually, totally opposed to the idea of retention elections for judges. > > I’ll simply note that he may be expecting too much. While three judges in Iowa lost retention votes in 2010 following their vote on same sex marriage, it actually remained the law. Also, a retention vote for Supreme Court judges would be nationwide, and Democrats outpolled Republicans in 2014. That’s an interesting point. There is no nationally elected official in the US, other than the president and only then thru the electoral college. I can’t see a conservative like Cruz calling for a popular vote-- it would have to be something like the electoral college. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scoyus-decision-on-gay-marriage-affect-the-presidential-election/723653/70 "2015-06-30T00:57:22Z")
I don’t know - the entire point of Supreme Court Justices not being elected is that they don’t pander to popular opinion. There’s always an argument to be made in regards to elected v. appointed positions. I would point out, however, that there other two branches of government (executive and legislative) are elected, so for those that support a balance between appointed and elected positions, elected judges would mean all the power players had to be people-pleasers to keep their jobs. It definitely would increase the the likelihood of “tyranny of the majority.” ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scoyus-decision-on-gay-marriage-affect-the-presidential-election/723653/71 "2015-06-30T01:00:32Z")
So Cruz’s plan to prevent SC justices from being political and making decisions based on public opinion is to subject them to public elections in order to keep their jobs? Well, that certainly seems well thought out. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scoyus-decision-on-gay-marriage-affect-the-presidential-election/723653/72 "2015-06-30T01:10:09Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > So Cruz’s plan to prevent SC justices from being political and making decisions based on public opinion is to subject them to public elections in order to keep their jobs? Well, that certainly seems well thought out. No, he’s saying they don’t listen to the people. Or, in the current case, that they only listen to the East Coast corridor, Wash - Boston snobocracy. It is a bit funny, though, since he is a product of Princeton and Harvard taking pokes at justices from Ivy League schools… ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scoyus-decision-on-gay-marriage-affect-the-presidential-election/723653/73 "2015-06-30T01:16:09Z")
> [@Tzigone](#): > > I don’t know - the entire point of Supreme Court Justices not being elected is that they don’t pander to popular opinion. There’s always an argument to be made in regards to elected v. appointed positions. I would point out, however, that there other two branches of government (executive and legislative) are elected, so for those that support a balance between appointed and elected positions, elected judges would mean all the power players had to be people-pleasers to keep their jobs. It definitely would increase the the likelihood of “tyranny of the majority.” I like the Colorado method. A judge is appointed by the appropriate executive from a list provided by a bar association. From time to time, those judges are subject to a retention election. That’s a simple yes or no. Should the vote be no, a replacement judge is appointed by the appropriate executive from a list provided by a bar association. In my time in Colorado, judges who were rejected for retention were, in fact, usually pretty bad judges. I absolutely do not agree with the system here in Ohio, which masquerades as a non-partisan race for the position between two or more candidates. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scoyus-decision-on-gay-marriage-affect-the-presidential-election/723653/74 "2015-06-30T01:30:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No, he’s saying they don’t listen to the people. Or, in the current case, that they only listen to the East Coast corridor, Wash - Boston snobocracy. That doesn’t even make sense though. Support for same sex marriage was at an all time high and over a majority of Americans before the ruling. Don’t get me wrong – I’m not asking YOU to defend his statement. I’m just sayin’ that it’s crazy talk. I suppose retention elections will only be open to landed white Christian male gentry or something. Because he sure as hell doesn’t want the public at large deciding to keep or toss people from the current lineup. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scoyus-decision-on-gay-marriage-affect-the-presidential-election/723653/75 "2015-06-30T01:36:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I can’t see a conservative like Cruz calling for a popular vote-- it would have to be something like the electoral college. You’re right. Cruz wants to require the justices to win retention nationwide _and_ in a majority of states. And if they lose, even with a strong majority nationwide (the 25 smallest states only account for around a sixth of the population), that would result in disqualification for life. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scoyus-decision-on-gay-marriage-affect-the-presidential-election/723653/76 "2015-06-30T02:30:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Name one demographic group that votes the past rather than the present. Apparently, Republicans think there are plenty, considering how many still bring up the Civil War to argue that Democrats are the REAL racists. > [@](#): > > Today gays can get married. Republicans have no interest in passing any anti-gay laws, or standing in the way of repealing old ones. Great! When can we expect the widespread Republican opposition of laws discriminating against gays and transgendered people in the workplace? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scoyus-decision-on-gay-marriage-affect-the-presidential-election/723653/77 "2015-06-30T03:24:36Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > That doesn’t even make sense though. Support for same sex marriage was at an all time high and over a majority of Americans before the ruling. I heard Cruz on NPR responding to that by saying: then why couldn’t it have been accomplished through the legislative process? But, I think if you go state by state, you’d still find some with \< 50% in favor of SSM. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scoyus-decision-on-gay-marriage-affect-the-presidential-election/723653/78 "2015-06-30T08:30:18Z")
[Cruz expands on his meaning in a campaign speech in Iowa](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/06/27/ted-cruz-calls-for-judicial-retention-elections-for-supreme-court-justices/): > [@](#): > > “Sadly we’ve seen several 2016 candidates in response to yesterday’s decision saying it is the law of the land, we must accept it and move on,” Cruz said as the Des Moines audience booed. “When Republican candidates are standing up and reciting Barack Obama’s talking points things have gone seriously wrong.”… > > The Texas Republican, who had a tepid start in Iowa, tried to use Saturday’s speech, titled “Believe Again” as a way to both solidify his presence in the state and as the uncompromising conservative in the 2016 field. Cruz has come up with a new phrase for the institution he said he is fighting: the “Washington cartel,” which he said is comprised by members of both parties, lobbyists, and now Supreme Court justices. > > “This week’s assault was but the latest in a long line of judicial assaults on our Constitution and Judeo-Christian values that have made America great,” he said. The Supreme Court “has now forced the disaster of a health-care law called Obamacare on the American people and attempted to redefine an institution that was ordained by God.” Everything Cruz says & does is in support of his campaign. This latest outburst definitely got him publicity. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scoyus-decision-on-gay-marriage-affect-the-presidential-election/723653/79 "2015-06-30T08:48:27Z")
I for one am thrilled to see the level of knowledge of the law and civics demonstrated by the general public. I mean, the sheer number of people on the internet alone who know what’s Constitutional and what’s not better than the members of the US Supreme Court do is staggering. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scoyus-decision-on-gay-marriage-affect-the-presidential-election/723653/80 "2015-06-30T16:36:23Z")
Homosexuals tend to hold [significantly more liberal views](http://wonkwire.com/2015/06/30/same-sex-marriage-wont-turn-gay-population-into-republicans/) than the rest of the population average. Curious if that’s partially due to the virulently anti-gay stances of the GOP driving people into the Democratic party where they’re then exposed to other liberal thought. Or it could be that dealing with anti-gay crap gives you a more open view of the world. Or something else entirely. Point being, it probably won’t be soon that you see the Democratic party losing the gay vote. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scoyus-decision-on-gay-marriage-affect-the-presidential-election/723653.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-scoyus-decision-on-gay-marriage-affect-the-presidential-election/723653.md?page=5)