# Will the Tesla Model 3 revolutionize Amercan driving? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 30, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537 "2015-07-30T00:07:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/261 "2015-09-08T16:39:16Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I’d expect every roadside restaurant to have a charging column next to every (or maybe like the first dozen) parking spaces, and some would probably even make them free. So, “every” roadside restaurant is going to pay to upgrade their electrical capacity to a million watts, install a dozen supercharging stations, and give away the electricity for free? No, it’s not up to the level of installing fuel tanks, but it’s still a big investment, maybe $100k. Sure, you might be able to install 1 without major investment, but not a dozen. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/262 "2015-09-08T17:59:34Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > So, “every” roadside restaurant is going to pay to upgrade their electrical capacity to a million watts, install a dozen supercharging stations, and give away the electricity for free? They may not do supercharging stations, but the regular 220v chargers. And yes, you give away $1 worth of electricity for free while the customers come in and spend $40 on food. Not a bad bargain. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/263 "2015-09-08T18:12:28Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > They may not do supercharging stations, but the regular 220v chargers. And yes, you give away $1 worth of electricity for free while the customers come in and spend $40 on food. Not a bad bargain. Or contract with [Blink](https://www.blinknetwork.com/) and you can charge for the electricity. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/264 "2015-09-08T22:04:28Z")
Economically speaking, wiring up even a potion of the parking lot is a terrible financial move. Your expected gain off this is so tiny relative to the costs - not to mention maintenance or liability, that it’s a huge net negative. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/265 "2015-09-08T22:21:42Z")
It wouldn’t be for revenue from charging but from increased concession type purchases - the real money makers at gas stations. Or post 262 that I missed. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/266 "2015-09-09T01:47:26Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You can’t have it both ways: you say the Volt is a lousy car, then you talk about how it is the most honored car in history. > > Holy flippin’ turkeyburgers, why must there be an argument over whether the Volt is a great car? You said it sucks. I said it’s mediocre. Then we have your sarcastic post about how great the Volt is. Dude, are you not reading what I’m writing? We agree. The Volt isn’t all that great. Why is it so hard to agree with someone on a message board? I said it needed batteries that charge in 2 minutes in order to sell. I’ve made fun of all the glory heaped on it before the Sun shown on the first one. People were acting as if the technology came from crashed space ships in Roswell when in reality it was very similar to the Prius version with an ICE engine and 2 electric motors tied into a planetary gear set. It’s not that I think the car is evil it’s just that it was so obviously over-hyped and didn’t have the sales potential it was ordained to have. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/267 "2015-09-09T02:17:28Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > 100%\* of miles driven by ICE cars are powered by fuel pumped from a gas station. > … > \*give or take a fraction of a percent - waste oil diesels. I don’t know how widespread the on-road abuse of it is, but there’s farm/dyed diesel available, too, and it’s usually delivered by a tanker and doesn’t come from a gas station. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/268 "2015-09-09T03:48:01Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > So, “every” roadside restaurant is going to pay to upgrade their electrical capacity to a million watts, install a dozen supercharging stations, and give away the electricity for free? > > No, it’s not up to the level of installing fuel tanks, but it’s still a big investment, maybe $100k. Sure, you might be able to install 1 without major investment, but not a dozen. Well, I put one in my garage, and it wasn’t very expensive. I paid a few hundred for the charger, and another couple hundred to run an outlet to a convenient spot. Yeah, superchargers might be pricey to install. I dunno. regular 220 volt chargers are not. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/269 "2015-09-09T04:24:55Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Well, I put one in my garage, and it wasn’t very expensive. I paid a few hundred for the charger, and another couple hundred to run an outlet to a convenient spot. Yeah, superchargers might be pricey to install. I dunno. regular 220 volt chargers are not. And in some of the northern states, we already have this infrastructure installed partly. Here in Minnesota, engine block heaters are pretty common, and most garages are already wired for them. Even a fair number of businesses & parking facilities have such outlets installed, at least for employees. These are generally wired to handle 1 or 2 heaters of 1000-1500 watts each, and all-electric car chargers may need more wattage. But upgrading that (fishing new wires thru existing conduit) is often a simpler task. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/270 "2015-09-09T04:54:31Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Here in Minnesota, engine block heaters are pretty common, and most garages are already wired for them. Even a fair number of businesses & parking facilities have such outlets installed, at least for employees. These are generally wired to handle 1 or 2 heaters of 1000-1500 watts each, and all-electric car chargers may need more wattage. But upgrading that (fishing new wires thru existing conduit) is often a simpler task. Luckily a lot of homeowners in my neck of the woods have cool toys like compressors and welders, so there’s already a fair number of garages wired for 220. On the other hand, they would still have to be re-wired to another meter to take advantage of green energy price benefits. Most stick-built homes don’t have any conduit anywhere; just a hole through the 2x4’s. And home circuits in the USA are radial circuits, so it wouldn’t be a matter of fishing a new cable through the conduit even if it was there. On the other hand, adding a new circuit is an elementary process and fairly cheap, so the use of radial circuits and the lack of conduit would only be a problem in houses without wood skeletons. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/271 "2015-09-09T05:00:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > They may not do supercharging stations, but the regular 220v chargers. And yes, you give away $1 worth of electricity for free while the customers come in and spend $40 on food. Not a bad bargain. Even if you don’t want to give it away - it would seem to be trivially easy to install some form of “toll” bar for using the charger - swipe a card, pay with a $1 coin …it’s not very hard ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/272 "2015-09-09T09:04:18Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Even if you don’t want to give it away - it would seem to be trivially easy to install some form of “toll” bar for using the charger - swipe a card, pay with a $1 coin …it’s not very hard That’s already done. There’s the GE WattStation for example. Pay with your cell phone using either a linked credit card or PayPal. There’s even flexibility in the charging plans. For example at my company’s locations, charging is free unless you remain plugged in more than four hours. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/273 "2015-09-09T10:30:37Z")
No, but guys, you don’t get it. Installing an electric outlet is impossible. Can’t be done. Restaurants will go broke doing so. It’s laughable. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/274 "2015-09-09T11:03:00Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Well, I put one in my garage, and it wasn’t very expensive. I paid a few hundred for the charger, and another couple hundred to run an outlet to a convenient spot. Yeah, superchargers might be pricey to install. I dunno. regular 220 volt chargers are not. Terr’s idea is that every restaurant would install a dozen or so chargers to attract customers with $1 of free electricity. Assuming a 220V 30A charger, that’s a new 360 Amp load on their current service, that might require an expensive upgrade. Then they have to tear up the sidewalk or asphalt to run a dozen new electrical lines and install the chargers which will cost 500-1,000 bucks a piece. You’re talking close to 20 grand, easy. For promotional investment, to give away $1 of electricity to each EV customer. Customers who, once EVs are a bit more mature, won’t NEED the additional range. The fundamental difference is that many folks envision an EV world where there are chargers and swap stations everywhere. I envision an EV world where chargers outside the home just aren’t needed in any significant quantity. ---
**Author:** ![Doubticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@Doubticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doubticus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/275 "2015-09-09T20:02:47Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > As a happy Volt owner, I must chime in. If it suits your driving pattern, the Volt is a wonderful car. . As another Volt owner, I have to agree. One of the most fun cars I’ve had. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/276 "2015-09-09T20:16:22Z")
FWIW, Tesla has their [destination charging](http://www.teslamotors.com/destination-charging) program, in which they subsidize the installation of chargers as long as they’re in a prominent location. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/277 "2015-09-09T22:06:00Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > No, but guys, you don’t get it. Installing an electric outlet is impossible. Can’t be done. Restaurants will go broke doing so. It’s laughable. I’m so looking forward to seeing outlets installed. you block off spaces near the building and people will park their #1 and #2 highest selling vehicles in them sideways. This is literally the Volt thread all over again. 10,000 reasons why the inconveniences don’t matter and they will sell millions of them. FTR, I saw my first Volt on the highway today. As luck would have it there was room to pass it so I got a good view. Nice tires. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/278 "2015-09-09T22:31:41Z")
So why are you turning this into “the Volt thread all over again”? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/279 "2015-09-09T22:54:38Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > This is literally the Volt thread all over again. 10,000 reasons why the inconveniences don’t matter and they will sell millions of them. > . As we have been saying, for many people there are no real inconveniences, and they actually make things easier. I start every morning with a full tank of electrons. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/280 "2015-09-09T23:39:12Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m so looking forward to seeing outlets installed. you block off spaces near the building and people will park their #1 and #2 highest selling vehicles in them sideways. In Illinois, [ICE-holes can be fined](http://pluginsites.org/illinois-ev-parking-bill-passes-iceing-75-fine-tow/). Few things would brighten my day more than to see the owner of a large truck get five separate $75 fines for parking sideways across an electric charging area. You have articulated it poorly, and hidden it in reams of nonsense, but buried in your posts is an actual point: why isn’t the Volt a success? It seems like it should be: the 38 mile range is enough to keep most commutes electric-only, and the ICE keeps the overall range reasonable. It’s gotten good reviews, and the people here seem to like it. My only answer is that it sits in a very awkward market position. It’s not a pure electric and so doesn’t appeal to super-environmentalists or people that just hate ICEs. It’s too ugly and slow to appeal to anyone but the hyper-pragmatic. It kinda competes with the Prius, but the Prius is the more established brand, and Toyota has a better rep than Chevy. Finally, although I think there is a niche that it succeeds at, it just doesn’t stand out enough in any way to overcome the mental resistance people have to electrics. I think this latter point is where Tesla has massively succeeded. If the Model S were just an ordinary boring car, there would be no reason to make the mental effort to evaluate the advantages of electrics. But since it is a stunning car, people think _holy shit, an electric car can do 0-60 in three seconds?_, and get excited enough that they devote a bit of brainspace to it. That just doesn’t happen with other electrics. The Model 3 will also need to be exciting, but to some extent will ride on the coattails of the Model S/X. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537.md?page=15)