# Will the Tesla Model 3 revolutionize Amercan driving? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 30, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537 "2015-07-30T00:07:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/301 "2015-09-11T22:35:31Z")
> [@tafowler87](#): > > However, if you want to talk revolution then figure out a way the gas/oil industry can bounce back as we enter a global economy. The gas/oil industry needs to die (normally I’d say it needs to “die in a fire”, but that’s exactly what we don’t want). Fossil fuels will run out sooner or later, whether we want it or not. We need to be transitioning now so that we have a soft landing. Plus the whole global warming thing, and the fact that fossil-fuel-rich countries are largely on our shit list as a nation. Fortunately for those of us that care about the long-term survival of human civilization, we’re quickly reaching a point where a sustainable, renewable electric infrastructure is _cheaper_ than the fossil fuel equivalents. ~75% of newly built electric capacity in the US was solar and wind (the rest was the “lesser evil,” gas). This trend will only become more true over time. You are correct that electric cars are a trend. A strong, long-term trend that will culminate in virtually all ground transportation being electric. It’s hydrocarbon cars that are a fad, however; one that will have lasted a century and a half at most. I can’t wait. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/302 "2015-09-11T22:50:07Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Low market visibility? HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa. > > There has never been another car in the history of the Universe that got this much free publicity. You and I are apparently exposed to different media. I’d never heard of the thing until I shopped for cars, misunderstood what it was until too late, and bought a different hybrid electric. Since I actually bought a hybrid electric, I assume I am at least kinda the target demographic. :shrug: I’ve heard tons about Tesla. Read articles in the WSJ about their contract for lithium, read articles in tech press about their nifty technology, read consumer reports glowing review, read the “oatmeal” comic extolling it… Trust me, Tesla is better known. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/303 "2015-09-11T23:04:19Z")
> [@The\_Niply\_Elder](#): > > ? Free publicity? Is advertising on the Super Bowl free nowadays? You can tell pretty much at a glance what brands are on Americans minds by seeing what’s advertised at the super bowl, and the Volt isn’t it. In fact there’s hardly any advertisement for it on tv or the Internet. The day the Chevy volt appears on SDMB spam banners you’ll be correct in saying that the Chevy volt has “free publicity” since the SD gets like .00001 cents every time one of us mistakenly clicks on a way to find out how a local mom made $7373 a day spamming Anna Kournikova nudie pics working from home… > “Hahaha” > > Haha > > Ha > > H Really? You’re unaware of the free advertisement this car got along with all the awards? Seriously, this has been the most promoted car ever. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/304 "2015-09-11T23:20:47Z")
> [@The\_Niply\_Elder](#): > > Some of them do, some don’t. The quantity of them that do have it is a factor of economics, which is ruled by the actual quantity of people using them as a matter of need based on their cost/benefit analysis implicitly made. The swap stations will gradually spread as economic factors allow. Which is the exact same principle by which other utilities spread in popularity such as the electric grid, natural gas piping, telephone wiring, Internet cabling, cell phone towers, etc. This concept is really something that should have been explained to you in High School economics class to you, btw. Hunted down a video on it. Very impressive. How does the company deal with duty cycle time on the battery they take in and give out? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/305 "2015-09-11T23:23:28Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Really? You’re unaware of the free advertisement this car got along with all the awards? Seriously, this has been the most promoted car ever. All that free advertising, like when the CEO of Chevy talked about the Volt on the _Late Show_, or all those news stories about how they “broke” the Consumer Reports rating system by scoring 103 out of 100 points. Oh wait, that was Tesla. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/306 "2015-09-11T23:47:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Seriously, this has been the most promoted car ever. I don’t agree. I don’t recall seeing a TV ad for a Volt in an awful long time. How many Volt ads do you see during, say, Monday Night Football or your favorite prime-time sitcom? Because I bet you F-150 ads outnumber Volt ads 100 to 1. If not 10,000 to 1. Plus, I don’t think I’ve seen any media coverage of the Volt that I didn’t look for since the car was introduced several years ago. You’re not whining about seeing the car a few times on the 5 o’clock news five years ago, are you? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/307 "2015-09-11T23:54:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Hunted down a video on it. Very impressive. How does the company deal with duty cycle time on the battery they take in and give out? You get your original battery back at the end of your trip (you have to visit the same station again, of course). They don’t rent it out to anyone else, so it’s in as good condition as it started in. The batteries have an immense amount of stored telemetry information in them, so they can ensure that the rental packs all remain in good condition. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/308 "2015-09-12T00:51:26Z")
It seems odd to require that the car owner eventually get the same battery back. I think a better model would be to offer the battery as a service, so that there is no association betwen a particular car and a particular battery. If, as you said, there is telemetry information associated with the battery, this can be associated with the car in which it was installed at a particular time. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/309 "2015-09-12T00:58:51Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > All that free advertising, like when the CEO of Chevy talked about the Volt on the _Late Show_, or all those news stories about how they “broke” the Consumer Reports rating system by scoring 103 out of 100 points. Oh wait, that was Tesla. Right. However much publicity the volt got, it’s completely dwarfed by the publicity the Tesla got. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/310 "2015-09-12T01:11:02Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > It seems odd to require that the car owner eventually get the same battery back. I think a better model would be to offer the battery as a service, so that there is no association betwen a particular car and a particular battery. If, as you said, there is telemetry information associated with the battery, this can be associated with the car in which it was installed at a particular time. I can see arguments in both directions, but we have one example of the model you propose–[Better Place](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place)–and it failed miserably. So there’s not yet a precedent that the model works. Granted, that company had all kinds of other problems, so maybe it’s not a good example, but it’s the only one we have. Personally, I just don’t see swap stations taking off in any configuration. Not enough people will care to make it economical. It’s like proposing a gasoline tanker truck to drive beside you on the highway so you can fill up without stopping. It just seems like a weird and expensive way to save a few minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/311 "2015-09-28T17:54:47Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > You get your original battery back at the end of your trip (you have to visit the same station again, of course). They don’t rent it out to anyone else, so it’s in as good condition as it started in. The batteries have an immense amount of stored telemetry information in them, so they can ensure that the rental packs all remain in good condition. Horrible idea! Considering the battery is probably the most expensive part of the car, I would rather Tesla treat it like a commodity and actually “own” the battery and save me the $$$ when I buy the Model Ξ as long as it meets minimal requirements like chargeable for 250 miles, I don’t care what battery I have. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/312 "2015-09-28T23:17:35Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Horrible idea! Considering the battery is probably the most expensive part of the car, I would rather Tesla treat it like a commodity and actually “own” the battery and save me the $$$ when I buy the Model Ξ as long as it meets minimal requirements like chargeable for 250 miles, I don’t care what battery I have. You might be right in the long run, but I don’t see it happening initially. People generally like owning their stuff. However, millennials seem more receptive to a renting/sharing/subscription economy, so it’s possible that we’ll transition there eventually. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/313 "2015-09-29T00:39:53Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > You might be right in the long run, but I don’t see it happening initially. People generally like owning their stuff. However, millennials seem more receptive to a renting/sharing/subscription economy, so it’s possible that we’ll transition there eventually. it’s not a function of people liking their own stuff. A battery is significant part of the cost of the car and also has a duty cycle. Every time it’s used the battery looses capacity. Nobody is going to blindly take a battery without knowing it’s value in respect to the one they’re swapping out. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/314 "2015-09-29T00:45:49Z")
Not exactly a like for like, But there are swappable 9kg LPG gas tanks - You join the scheme, and so long as your “entering” tank is certified you swap it for another tank at a participating convenience store or petrol station. There’s no particular reason there couldn’t be some sort of “hot swap” for cars - particularly if it is for “extendable” range Say for example, 150 miles of range is built into the empty spaces in the chassis / built into the car, but then there is some universal size / space for additional range batteries to fit? This could potentially be hot swappable (while simultaneously solving the road trip range problem) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/315 "2015-09-29T00:52:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > it’s not a function of people liking their own stuff. A battery is significant part of the cost of the car and also has a duty cycle. Every time it’s used the battery looses capacity. Nobody is going to blindly take a battery without knowing it’s value in respect to the one they’re swapping out. **Saint Cad** ’s argument is that you should never own the battery at all. If you don’t actually own a thing, who cares how it’s been treated as long as it meets the specifications? I wouldn’t want to loan out my car so that people can spin donuts in the parking lot, but when I rent a car I don’t care what the previous renter did, as long as the car meets some minimum condition. That’s the rental company’s problem. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/316 "2015-09-29T23:15:44Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > **Saint Cad** ’s argument is that you should never own the battery at all. If you don’t actually own a thing, who cares how it’s been treated as long as it meets the specifications? I wouldn’t want to loan out my car so that people can spin donuts in the parking lot, but when I rent a car I don’t care what the previous renter did, as long as the car meets some minimum condition. That’s the rental company’s problem. OK. I understand the point. Here’s my prediction. While Tesla is pissing away limited funds on battery swaps that nobody will use, major car manufacturers will put their money in basic research in anticipation of quick charge batteries. The market will be flooded with well designed cars that undercut Tesla’s manufacturing costs pushing it’s cars into an even higher luxury/performance market in order to survive. The problem is that sleek body styles don’t cost a nickle more than a budget body and electric motors will be a tremendous performance equalizer making “size” the only real differentiation. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/317 "2015-09-30T05:03:53Z")
Does Tesla really do battery swaps for real? I thought that was still vaporware. What they have actually done is work on faster and faster charging techonology. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/318 "2015-09-30T05:37:00Z")
Tesla _earns_ money on their battery swap research, even though they aren’t in use. They earn extra tax credits for maintaining the capability. Tesla is so far ahead on the fast charging game that it’s ridiculous to suggest that they’ll be leapfrogged. They’re the only ones with their own high-power charging network. Tesla can charge at up to 135 kW; the next closest competitor is the Nissan Leaf on the latest CHAdeMO charger; it achieves 44 kW. Basically, you’re claiming that the other manufacturers just have to wait for the batteries to improve, and then they can just move in. I think that’s just blatantly wrong. Tesla is far ahead on many fronts. Over the air updates. Dealer-free experience. Cell manufacturing. Battery pack assembly. Touch-based head unit. Etc. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/319 "2015-09-30T05:39:12Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Does Tesla really do battery swaps for real? I thought that was still vaporware. What they have actually done is work on faster and faster charging techonology. They have a pilot going on I-5 in CA. They’re operating, but on invitation only. It’s apparently not very popular. BTW, the Model X was launched today. It looks pretty sweet. [Video here](http://www.teslamotors.com/modelx). The falcon doors are neat. ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/320 "2015-09-30T05:41:22Z")
I believe they delivered the first model X today. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537.md?page=17)