# Will the Tesla Model 3 revolutionize Amercan driving? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 30, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537 "2015-07-30T00:07:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/441 "2015-10-20T02:58:29Z")
I am curious to see the bolt. But it doesn’t exist, yet, and the Tesla S does. Although… my friend’s volt has all sorts of annoying interface issues. I’ll have to see the real thing and decide if I’d actually like the bolt. I’ve learned with phones and computers that everything on the market works well enough, and everything will be obsolete next year. But if I like the interface, I’ll be happy using the thing for a lot longer than if I don’t. Cars may be similar. Except that most electric cars aren’t actually good enough yet. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/442 "2015-10-20T06:04:57Z")
Another question for Magiver: If an equivalent to the Tesla can be made with off the shelf parts and is clearly sellable, why aren’t any of the large companies doing it? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/443 "2015-10-20T06:57:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If Tesla doesn’t have the capital, the engineering and the facilities to make a car in a timely manner then how can you expect them to compete when larger companies decide to go into full production? Do you think GM is just going to roll over with their Cadillac division? they’re going to roll alright and it will be right over the top of Tesla. > [@Magiver](#): > > They’re an underfunded company using off the shelf material delivering cars late to customers who paid in advance to keep the company going. It’s literally off-the-shelf technology in a very nicely packaged car. The nanosecond they dip their toe into the sales of a major company they will get boot stomped. It won’t be one company it will be a dozen who launch cars that are cheaper and better. > [@The\_Niply\_Elder](#): > > At the deepest level though, I don’t think that you understand the reason for Tesla’s existence. If Tesla fails and goes bankrupt and the big auto companies transition to making electric cars instead of petro cars, then that is a success. Tesla under that scenario acts as a catalyst to make the change onto sustainable auto transport. This is actually a valid point. Yes, Musk would like to make money off this project–he’s certainly sunk enough money into it–but if Tesla’s Model 3 is so popular that Toyota, GM, Nissan, and Honda all copy it, and blow Tesla out of the market by sheer volume and sheer number of existing distribution outlets, you know what? It will still have revolutionized American driving, which is the question in the thread title. _It is already the case that Tesla has changed how people think about electric cars._ You know what electric cars were before Elon Musk? “Golf carts.” Tiny little econoboxes. Something a handful of nerdy environmentalists in Southern California drove. Everybody “knew” that electric cars were stupid and weak and small and that it was too much trouble to build the infrastructure to recharge them on the highways of this nation. Tesla said, “Actually, we can begin to build the recharging infrastructure today, and if you’ll pay our higher price point for the initial purchase, we’ll let you use it for free.” Musk changed the economics by getting in the game. He accelerated the revolution by taking it off the drawing board and building it. I give Carlos Ghosn a lot of credit. I give Bob Lutz credit for changing his mind on electrics. But Tesla is the only [USA] company to a) make electrics _prestige_ cars[sup]\*[/sup], and b) build nothing but electrics and their associated infrastructure. Everyone else saw electrics as inferior to gas-burners. Tesla proved that to the consumer, they can be _superior._ Musk’s Tesla has already won on design. Their ideas can reshape the future, even if they get bought out. The next hurdle is the capital development so the Model 3 can happen according to plan. And you know what? They might fail. But you have to start with what you have. And Tesla’s already done something the other guys haven’t: They went all in on electric. > [@Magiver](#): > > Tesla has done a marvelous job making limited run luxury cars that nobody else will make because there is no money in it right now. but there are already 200 mile electric cars on the road for half the price of a Tesla. It’s simple math to see where this is going. On the road, commercially available, in America? Now? I see Italy has the [Bolloré Bluecar, with less than a 200 mile range, and a price point comparable to the Model 3.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bollor%C3%A9_Bluecar) > [@](#): > > sales began in February 2013 at a price of €19,000 plus a monthly fee of €80 for the batteries I don’t suppose those are street legal in the USA. No, I call “pants on fire.” - ETA: The Venturi Fetish is a very pretty electric sports car, with a 340 km range, and the closest thing to a Tesla that isn’t Tesla. It’s also from Monaco. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/444 "2015-10-20T08:58:13Z")
My own take on this is that Musk is bankrolling a project of personal interest. Rather like Brin and Branson they have an unfeasible amount of money to play with. They have the balls and the cash to try something new, some projects will fail, some will be a commercial success and some will be interesting proof of concepts that lose money but ultimately change the game. Now the technology used in the Tesla’s is not revolutionary. Even the (not really) auto-pilot upgrade is a feature common to many cars for some time now. That is great news as it means there is no technological barrier for competitors to overcome. The package however, is revolutionary. Who else had built a luxury, pure-electric car from the ground up without compromising an existing model? Who has made one as practical and good looking? Who put in the network to help run it? Whatever your views on Tesla, but it is now the yardstick for electric cars. Expensive? sure, but the challenge for all is now to bring a product to market that is 80% as good and 33% as expensive and you can bet all manufacturers are working hell-for-leather on that sort of a brief. The next five years will be very interesting for the development of EV’s ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/445 "2015-10-20T12:41:42Z")
I agree, NB. And i think the reason the newly released Tesla is such an odd car is because it is exactly the car Musk wants for himself. Most of us can’t spend millions to get the car of our dreams, but he can. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/446 "2015-10-20T13:45:55Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Tesla has changed how people think about electric cars. This is the big revolution. I recently sat in a Tesla at a “showroom” in a shopping mall.\* Later on, I met some friends and told them about it. There was no sticker on the window with a price, and we all enjoyed a good laugh when I told them I had asked how much it cost. I told the salesman to go talk to that other customer over there, 'cause it’s waaaay out of my league. But then my friends said, “but hey, that salesman got you anyway. You’re here now, doing his job for him–telling us all about how cool the Tesla is, and we’re eating it up. And that’s more effective than TV commercials” \*interesting minor point: the showroom was a standard storefront inside the mall. No access to a parking lot, (and no easy way to push a car into the showroom). So it was obvious that they had no intention of giving anybody a test ride. So I assume they were just showing off the car, and not expecting to actually get any money out of people’s pockets. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/447 "2015-10-20T21:14:04Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Even the (not really) auto-pilot upgrade is a feature common to many cars for some time now. Not really true. The Tesla is the only one where you can legitimately take the hands off the wheel for hours at a time. It’s also the only one with auto lane changing. [Comparisons with Mercedes’ Distronic Plus system](http://www.beyond.ca/autopilot-showdown-tesla-p85d-vs-mercedes-e63s-wagon/53192.html) indicate that it does a much better job in general. AFAIK, Mercedes was previously considered the gold standard. That said, it’s true that their solution is available to others. It’s made by a company called Mobileye and I don’t think Tesla has any exclusivity agreement. BTW, autopilot is a perfectly fine name for the technology, as contrasted with auto-driving. An airplane autopilot doesn’t go from point A to point B with no human intervention. It only handles a few phases of flight, doesn’t “connect” these phases, and always requires a human behind the stick in case it gets into a tough situation. The name was deliberately chosen to reflect this limited level of automation. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/448 "2015-10-20T21:19:07Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > \*interesting minor point: the showroom was a standard storefront inside the mall. No access to a parking lot, (and no easy way to push a car into the showroom). So it was obvious that they had no intention of giving anybody a test ride. So I assume they were just showing off the car, and not expecting to actually get any money out of people’s pockets. Obviously they weren’t using their display car for test drives, but in any case they could have just driven it in. Remember: no pollution. I think some of these showrooms have a few cars in the mall parking for test drive purposes. That said, I suspect you’re right that they don’t really intend to get money out of you that day. They don’t make commission, so they have no real interest in getting you to buy now vs. visiting their website later. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/449 "2015-10-20T23:05:56Z")
Whoa - Consumer Reports reversed its recommendation for the Model S based on poor reliability. Tesla stocks drop 10%. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/450 "2015-10-20T23:21:51Z")
Tesla’s stock was definitely overvalued; seems like it was waiting for a piece of bad news to justify a correction. Honestly, it’s still overvalued and I wouldn’t be surprised if it dips below $200. The actual [Consumer Reports article](http://www.consumerreports.org/cars/tesla-reliability-doesnt-match-its-high-performance) was pretty balanced, I thought. It does cite lots of reliability concerns (though on par with cars like the BMW 5-series), while still noting the very high consumer satisfaction rate. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/451 "2015-10-21T04:04:32Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Another question for Magiver: > If an equivalent to the Tesla can be made with off the shelf parts and is clearly sellable, why aren’t any of the large companies doing it? Already discussed. They’re NOT sellable. Seriously, where is the disconnect here. I didn’t propose a unifying string theory. Tesla is a small company making a limited number of expensive niche cars. They are not in a financial position to “revolutionize” American driving. This is the topic of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/452 "2015-10-21T04:11:07Z")
Anyone who claims that the BMW 7-series and Audi A8 exist as real products is delusional, because no manufacturer would bother with [a market smaller than the Model S](http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2015/10/19/tesla-zooms-past-bmw-audi-limos-in-europe-zeroing-in-on-mercedes/). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/453 "2015-10-21T04:11:45Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Not really true. The Tesla is the only one where you can legitimately take the hands off the wheel for hours at a time. It’s also the only one with auto lane changing. Well the only problem with their hands off the wheel technology is that it [doesn’t work](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3281562/Tesla-autopilot-fail-videos-emerge-Terrifying-footage-shows-happens-autonomous-driving-goes-wrong.html). Other than that, nice looking car. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/454 "2015-10-21T04:19:55Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Well the only problem with their hands off the wheel technology is that it [doesn’t work](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3281562/Tesla-autopilot-fail-videos-emerge-Terrifying-footage-shows-happens-autonomous-driving-goes-wrong.html). One or two idiots deliberately attempting stunts that are against all recommendations by Tesla does not indicate a problem. The autopilot requires clear road markings and is designed for highway use, not curvy backcountry roads or offramps. Even at that, the car warned the drivers in advance and had they been paying more attention there wouldn’t have been the slightest problem. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/455 "2015-10-21T06:04:02Z")
Well, I wasn’t expecting that from Consumer Reports. But I’m not that surprised. It seems like Tesla went for fancy & flashy over reliable. The Model S is an interesting car, but there are things about it that bug me. For some features, a reliable manual system is better than a potentially buggy powered system. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/456 "2015-10-21T10:46:10Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Not really true. The Tesla is the only one where you can legitimately take the hands off the wheel for hours at a time. It’s also the only one with auto lane changing… Well I’m not convinced by the current reviews that Tesla’s system is substantially better or different than all the other ones out there (Mercedes is far from the only one). Plus it is a beta with the recommendation that you _don’t_ take your hands off the wheel. The auto lane change seems like a option unique to the Tesla but it doesn’t strike me as a killer function. This isn’t to denigrate Tesla, it is a neat system but by making a huge media show of it, it rather smacks of Apple claiming the technological high ground by dint of an incremental improvement. It may be a _bit_ better sure but seeing as it is 5 years or more behind the other systems on the market we should expect it to be. Upgrades from other manufacturers will follow I’m sure that will make improvements over Tesla. The integration of systems on even a fairly mid-range car is such that the Tesla level of automation functionality is only a firmware upgrade away for many vehicles. That’s a good thing in my view, Mercedes, BMW and VW create self-driving cars, Tesla makes a slight improvement, the others make an improvement…and so on. Heck, even my boring mid-range car could specify adaptive cruise control, lane guidance, auto parking, road sign recognition if I wanted it. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/457 "2015-10-21T11:11:17Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Whoa - Consumer Reports reversed its recommendation for the Model S based on poor reliability. Tesla stocks drop 10%. I wondered about that. That will hurt sakes of the new one, I bet, with the incredibly complicated falcon ring doors. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/458 "2015-10-21T14:02:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Already discussed. They’re NOT sellable. You pontificating a viewpoint with nothing to back it up is not a discussion. And what do you base your statement on? Because the Model S has sold 90,000 units and many outlets are [reporting](http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/09/02/5-reasons-tesla-motors-incs-model-s-sales-havent-p.aspx) [high](http://www.autonews.com/article/20150702/OEM05/150709964/tesla-vehicle-sales-rise-52-in-q2) [demand](http://www.ibtimes.com/tesla-model-s-only-electric-car-demand-right-now-low-us-gas-prices-batter-plug-car-2125907). PLUS you conveniently forget the topic of this thread is the Model Ξ and the assumption of a $35K electric car with range of 300 miles. You think THAT car is unsellable? > [@Magiver](#): > > Well the only problem with their hands off the wheel technology is that it [doesn’t work](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3281562/Tesla-autopilot-fail-videos-emerge-Terrifying-footage-shows-happens-autonomous-driving-goes-wrong.html). Other than that, nice looking car. I’m calling BS on the first video. Notice how the bottom of the steering wheel isn’t shown and how quickly his hand was on the wheel out of frame. I’m saying he’s steering the car to make this video. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/459 "2015-10-21T14:58:48Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > You think THAT car is unsellable? Oh, he’s never going to answer that question. His whole argument is that the Volt is an awful car that nobody wants, nobody wants the Telsa, because GM is going to make much better cars, for example the Volt, which everyone hates. And then the Bolt is going to be much, much better than any Tesla, which proves how bad Teslas are, but the Bolt is also going to be awful and nobody will want it despite GM being awesome, and the reason GM rules and the Bolt sucks, but is a huge improvement on Teslas, is that it doesn’t recharge in 2 minutes. It’s just a big circle of bad logic and calling anyone who disagrees with him a “fanboy”. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/460 "2015-10-21T17:42:21Z")
If the Bolt and Model Ξ live up to their hype and there is real competition in electric cars then American driving will be revolutionized EXCEPT if LG is involved with the Bolt that means it won’t get any bars in my driveway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537.md?page=24)