# Will the Tesla Model 3 revolutionize Amercan driving? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 30, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537 "2015-07-30T00:07:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/521 "2015-11-06T00:34:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > then you should have no trouble citing their financial stability TSLA is up 10% in the last couple of days… > [@Magiver](#): > > along with dealerships For the record, they do not offer buggy whips either. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/522 "2015-11-06T02:27:52Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > TSLA is up 10% in the last couple of days… > > For the record, they do not offer buggy whips either. So no evidence to contradict what I’ve cited. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/523 "2015-11-06T03:13:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So no evidence to contradict what I’ve cited. What facts have you cited? You continually say that Tesla is underfunded without evidence or even clearly stating what you mean by that. They have access to billions of dollars and even with pessimistic assumptions will have enough money to bring the Model 3 to market. They obviously aren’t interested in dealerships, nor should they be. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/524 "2015-11-06T03:27:15Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > What facts have you cited? You continually say that Tesla is underfunded without evidence or even clearly stating what you mean by that. They have access to billions of dollars and even with pessimistic assumptions will have enough money to bring the Model 3 to market. They obviously aren’t interested in dealerships, nor should they be. I made multiple cites regarding their financial status. I’ve also cited their delays in deliveries as well as the large deposits they’ve asked of their customers. I’ve also cited that they’ve burned through their cash reserves and they did not apply this to their gigafactory but to shore up existing models. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/525 "2015-11-06T03:36:58Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I made multiple cites regarding their financial status. The stories have been about their high cash burn rate, which is well known and not a particular problem when they have easy access to funding. > [@Magiver](#): > > I’ve also cited their delays in deliveries as well as the large deposits they’ve asked of their customers. Again, there’s nothing shocking here–we know that Tesla is always behind their time estimates. They have shown a pattern of being late but eventually meeting their goals. > [@Magiver](#): > > I’ve also cited that they’ve burned through their cash reserves and they did not apply this to their gigafactory but to shore up existing models. The Model X is not an existing model; it’s a new one. That they had big capital expenses to double their existing production line is still not a great shock. If expenses dedicated _solely_ to existing Model S production were exceeding revenue, there would be a worry, but that has not been the case. They’re still in growth mode even this far ahead of the Model 3. In other news, the Gigafactory is [already partially operational](http://fortune.com/2015/11/03/tesla-grid-batteries-gigafactory/). They’re just making their grid power packs for now, but it’s a good sign that they have something coming out of the factory at all. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/526 "2015-11-06T04:06:38Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > The stories have been about their high cash burn rate, which is well known and not a particular problem when they have easy access to funding. > > Again, there’s nothing shocking here–we know that Tesla is always behind their time estimates. They have shown a pattern of being late but eventually meeting their goals. > > The Model X is not an existing model; it’s a new one. That they had big capital expenses to double their existing production line is still not a great shock. If expenses dedicated _solely_ to existing Model S production were exceeding revenue, there would be a worry, but that has not been the case. They’re still in growth mode even this far ahead of the Model 3. > > In other news, the Gigafactory is [already partially operational](http://fortune.com/2015/11/03/tesla-grid-batteries-gigafactory/). They’re just making their grid power packs for now, but it’s a good sign that they have something coming out of the factory at all. Well then, Tesla should beat Chevy to the street with their car. All is well. Without any showrooms they should sell like hotcakes. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/527 "2015-11-06T04:23:20Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Well then, Tesla should beat Chevy to the street with their car. All is well. I don’t see why you made that inference from what I said. > [@Magiver](#): > > Without any showrooms they should sell like hotcakes. Showrooms are not dealerships. Tesla has many showrooms. They have no dealerships. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/528 "2015-11-06T22:44:46Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Showrooms are not dealerships. Tesla has many showrooms. No they don’t. They have very few showrooms compared to any other car company. And buyers can’t get their car serviced at a showroom. They need dealerships to back them up. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/529 "2015-11-06T23:25:29Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No they don’t. They have very few showrooms compared to any other car company. And buyers can’t get their car serviced at a showroom. They need dealerships to back them up. No, that’s what a service center is. Tesla has those too. One of the many stupidities of the dealership model is that they combine the entities of showroom, service center, and warehouse. There’s zero reason to have all these things under the same roof. Tesla’s model allows them to have small showrooms in highly visible areas such as shopping centers. They’re cheap and easily replicated because they don’t have to dedicate acres of space to maintaining a huge inventory. One of the many reasons I’ll buy a Model 3 is that I never want to step into a dealership again. I want nothing to do with their scummy tactics and useless middleman behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/530 "2015-11-07T00:17:37Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > No, that’s what a service center is. Tesla has those too. > > One of the many stupidities of the dealership model is that they combine the entities of showroom, service center, and warehouse. There’s zero reason to have all these things under the same roof. > > Tesla’s model allows them to have small showrooms in highly visible areas such as shopping centers. They’re cheap and easily replicated because they don’t have to dedicate acres of space to maintaining a huge inventory. > > One of the many reasons I’ll buy a Model 3 is that I never want to step into a dealership again. I want nothing to do with their scummy tactics and useless middleman behavior. Wow. You’re not even trying to post from a position of reality at this point. [Here is their website](http://www.teslamotors.com/findus/list/stores/United+States) showing all the sales and service centers. They have 29 service centers in the US. Not even one per state. I count 80 sales locations. Less than 2 per state. That you find buying a car difficult and have made this an argument for a lack of dealerships is funny considering Tesla asks for large down payments up front. I can’t think of anything more off-putting than such a tactic. To each his own. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/531 "2015-11-07T00:28:39Z")
In a couple of years we can have the same thread with a new title. [Faraday Future.](http://fortune.com/2015/11/05/faraday-future-tesla-mystery-electric-car/) They’re stealing engineers from companies like Tesla to build electric cars. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/532 "2015-11-07T00:38:58Z")
It’s not a problem for me since I pay cash for my cars. But even if I didn’t, I wouldn’t want some dealer trying to push their lame financing options on me. I’ll just use my own bank, thanks. A deposit is not a problem at all in this situation. Tesla sells every car they manufacture months in advance, and there have been no reports of service center undercapacity, so they seem to have the correct amount of support infrastructure. When Tesla needs more showrooms, it will be easy for them to open more since they don’t require huge lots on the edge of town. It’s just a very basic storefront. They could probably have one up in a matter of days, at least in states that haven’t been corrupted by good-ole-boy dealer networks. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/533 "2015-11-07T00:47:16Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > In a couple of years we can have the same thread with a new title. [Faraday Future.](http://fortune.com/2015/11/05/faraday-future-tesla-mystery-electric-car/) That is interesting. If they have in fact acquired big investments, there couldn’t be better proof of the value of Tesla’s business model. Clearly, a lot of people think the existing auto industry is ripe for disruption and isn’t afraid to pump billions of dollars into competition. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/534 "2015-11-07T04:31:40Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > That is interesting. If they have in fact acquired big investments, there couldn’t be better proof of the value of Tesla’s business model. Clearly, a lot of people think the existing auto industry is ripe for disruption and isn’t afraid to pump billions of dollars into competition. What business model? overextend your company and lose money in a niche market you are the sole player in? Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/535 "2015-11-07T05:23:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What business model? overextend your company and lose money in a niche market you are the sole player in? Seriously? Another possibility is that these billionaire investors have longer horizons than you. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/536 "2015-11-07T14:15:12Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > It’s not a problem for me since I pay cash for my cars. But even if I didn’t, I wouldn’t want some dealer trying to push their lame financing options on me. I’ll just use my own bank, thanks. A deposit is not a problem at all in this situation. You just got done saying what a problem dealers are. Tesla also offers financing for their cars. How is Tesla different in this regard? Why is a deposit “not a problem” compared to other car companies who simply hand you the keys to the car you want the day you want it? > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Tesla sells every car they manufacture months in advance, and there have been no reports of service center undercapacity, so they seem to have the correct amount of support infrastructure. Wow, you managed to redefine production delays into a positive. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > When Tesla needs more showrooms, it will be easy for them to open more since they don’t require huge lots on the edge of town. It’s just a very basic storefront. They could probably have one up in a matter of days, at least in states that haven’t been corrupted by good-ole-boy dealer networks. translated that means a company with money and production problems has to rely on fanboy worship of their product in order to survive. So far all you’ve done is make excuses for poor service. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/537 "2015-11-07T14:22:12Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Another possibility is that these billionaire investors have longer horizons than you. Another possibility is that an investment group thinks Tesla is going to fail because of poor business decisions and wants to replace them. Or the Chinese wanted to buy Tesla out and were rejected so they’re buying up their engineers. You can play this game indefinitely. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/538 "2015-11-07T23:10:26Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You just got done saying what a problem dealers are. Tesla also offers financing for their cars. How is Tesla different in this regard? Why is a deposit “not a problem” compared to other car companies who simply hand you the keys to the car you want the day you want it? GM Financial is a subsidiary of GM and a major profit center (same for Ford, etc.). Hence, they’re pushy in getting you to use their own programs. Tesla on the other hand has no financial services subsidiary, and their financing options just consist of them setting up a loan for you with US Bank, Wells Fargo, etc. They’ve no reason to push those programs on you. > [@Magiver](#): > > Wow, you managed to redefine production delays into a positive. It’s almost always better to have undercapacity than overcapacity. > [@Magiver](#): > > So far all you’ve done is make excuses for poor service. Actually, they have excellent service. Even the Consumer Reports reliability report recognized this. They may not have great reliability, but they are very good about fixing things. Generally you don’t have to visit a service center at all since they come to you. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/539 "2015-11-08T14:57:08Z")
Magiver you STILL don’t get the point of this thread. 1. Tesla has made people excited about electric cars. 2. With a projected cost of $35,000 and range of 200+ miles, Tesla has set the unofficial standard for a practical electric car. So when the Tesla 3 hits the street even if eventually outsold by the Bolt or the Leaf or the i3 or the GM Amp or what ever. Even if Tesla goes bankrupt and ceases to exist a year later, would the Tesla 3 have revolutionized driving by getting people to want to buy electrics and showing other companies that EVs are desired by Americans and by establishing that a practical EV can be made. So why don’t you answer that question instead of pontifficating and claiming you’re citing something. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/540 "2015-11-08T16:28:26Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Magiver you STILL don’t get the point of this thread. > > 1. Tesla has made people excited about electric cars. Bull hockey. They make luxury cars. People are excited about TESLA. Electric cars are the natural extension of hybrids. If you’re flinging credit for any excitement over economy cars give it to Toyota and Ford for making cars that make economic sense. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > 1. With a projected cost of $35,000 and range of 200+ miles, Tesla has set the unofficial standard for a practical electric car. > > ]So when the Tesla 3 hits the street even if eventually outsold by the Bolt or the Leaf or the i3 or the GM Amp or what ever. Even if Tesla goes bankrupt and ceases to exist a year later, would the Tesla 3 have revolutionized driving by getting people to want to buy electrics and showing other companies that EVs are desired by Americans and by establishing that a practical EV can be made. > > So why don’t you answer that question instead of pontifficating and claiming you’re citing something. If the Bolt hits the road first then the standard is set by GM not Tesla. GM had an electric car out long before Tesla existed. Electric cars literally go all the way back to the very beginning of automotive history and were viable for years until the ice motor blew past them in performance. Tesla is to electric cars as Porsche is to ICE cars. Nobody was inspired to buy a Chevy Vega because Porsche built the 214. And nobody rushed out to buy a Cosworth Vega. The 2 markets are a complete disconnect. This thread is pure fanboy emotional nonsense. I’m as impressed with Tesla’s luxury car’s as the next person but that doesn’t negate the fact they didn’t invent anything of note and have been riding their own niche market through very tough times. If they had an ounce of brains they would have stepped up their game and raised their prices. That’s where their market lies. In luxury cars. I’m unaware of any luxury brand that successfully competed by bringing out economy cars. Tesla is simply not in a position to compete. They don’t have the resources to throw at it. Economy cars are by default a function of economies of scale and frugal engineering. Tesla has never been at the forefront of electric cars and is not the progenitor of anything beyond their own niche market. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537.md?page=28)