# Will the Tesla Model 3 revolutionize Amercan driving? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 30, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537 "2015-07-30T00:07:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/561 "2015-11-11T02:39:18Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Tesla gives plenty of credit to the EV-1, though mostly in a negative sense (with regards to GM’s behavior). Of course it’s well known that GM ended the program as soon as they possibly could, and scrapped all the cars despite the protests of the lessees (the cars were never sold). Not to mention a lack of an EV-2. Why would GM build an EV-2? There was no money in it. They floated a concept car to see what kind of reaction it got. A direct comparison would be Chrysler’s turbojet car. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > The drivers of the EV-1 were enthusiastic about their cars despite it being fairly shitty. If a piece of junk can inspire candlelight vigils, then surely a well-designed car can actually achieve decent success. And that’s exactly what Tesla found to be true. The EV-1 was never a luxury car. It was a concept car aimed at regular drivers. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > The EV-1 deserves its place in history as an example of what not to do, and as evidence of the utter antipathy that big automakers had/have with regards to electrics. They would not in a million years have bothered with them if it weren’t for a combination of government regulation and Tesla’s existence proof of an excellent electric car. The antipathy goes to the consumer. There wasn’t a market for it. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Tesla forced the big automakers to move their goalposts. They can no longer claim that EVs inevitably suck and that there’s no consumer demand for them. On the contrary, they’re as slick and innovative and desirable as an iPhone. Cheap is the only argument that’s left, and everybody (including Tesla) is currently working in that direction. Tesla didn’t force anybody to do anything. They weren’t the first with a modern electric and they won’t be the first with a modern family EV. GM has their entry level EV on the road as we speak being evaluated. Tesla has a brochure. Maybe. Not even sure of that. They have a website. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/562 "2015-11-11T02:56:49Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Here is Magiver’s side in a nutshell. > Ignore the Model 3 and focus on the Model S. I guess S stands for Strawman. Justify this with fact he thinks (or hopes) are true - even if they contradict earlier “facts” he posted. Fact. there is no Model 3 at the moment. Like every other Tesla car it’s a gleam in a promoter’s eye. GM has their car on the road. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > The bottom line is even if M is correct that the Bolt will hit first or is a better car or Tesla will fold before the 3 rolls out the door, he neglects the main point in that people are _excited_ about the Tesla and many view it (rightfully or wrongfully) as the first affordable AND practical electric car - even though we have our fingers crossed hoping it lives up to the hype. That’s nothing but opinion. It completely ignores all the other cars on the road that the Bolt will actually compete against. Again, it’s like saying Porsche influenced the Chevy Vega with the 914. It’s not a logical statement. Now if you said the Porsche 356 influenced the VW Karmann Ghia… That would make some sense. So, since the Model 3 isn’t likely to hit the market first it’s highly unlikely it will be the one to influence American driving. Unless it bursts into flames. Then it will set the EV’s back a few years. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/563 "2015-11-11T03:27:05Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Fact. there is no Model 3 at the moment. Like every other Tesla car it’s a gleam in a promoter’s eye. GM has their car on the road. Again read the OP. This is a hypothetical about when the 3 comes out and NOT the status right now. Do you know how hypotheticals work? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/564 "2015-11-11T03:32:31Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Again read the OP. This is a hypothetical about when the 3 comes out and NOT the status right now. Do you know how hypotheticals work? How does something hypothetically influence driving AFTER other cars have beaten it to market? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/565 "2015-11-11T03:36:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Fact. there is no Model 3 at the moment. Like every other Tesla car it’s a gleam in a promoter’s eye. GM has their car on the road. And once again, we have the **Magiver** 2010 argument: the Model S isn’t real because it doesn’t exist right now. > [@](#): > > That’s nothi It completely ignores all the other cars on the road that the Bolt will actually compete against. Uh, do you mean the Volt? > [@](#): > > Again, it’s like saying Porsche influenced the Chevy Vega with the 914. It’s not a logical statement. It is a straw man argument you’ve advanced dozens of times. Stop it. > [@](#): > > So, since the Model 3 isn’t likely to hit the market first it’s highly unlikely it will be the one to influence American driving. If the Model 3 gets the same sort of reviews that the Model S got, it won’t matter which car got to market first. You should know damn well that Tesla has a better chance of making a revolutionary car than the company that created the Pontiac Aztek. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/566 "2015-11-11T03:37:53Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How does something hypothetically influence driving AFTER other cars have beaten it to market? The Newton made it to market before the Palm Pilot. Does that mean that the Newton was a game-changing PDA? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/567 "2015-11-11T04:19:08Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If the Model 3 gets the same sort of reviews that the Model S got, Then it will be a year late without the production or sales resources to compete. Remember the Volt and all the great reviews it got? It didn’t have the sales resources in place to showcase it. the Model S is a luxury car. People who buy it can afford to have a 2nd or 3rd car without any range. The Model 3 has to be a practical car that people can rely on as a daily driver and get serviced. That requires service centers. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/568 "2015-11-11T04:20:22Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The Newton made it to market before the Palm Pilot. Does that mean that the Newton was a game-changing PDA? you’re talking about a toy. This is a car. The decision factors are exponentially higher. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/569 "2015-11-11T04:48:53Z")
Here’s the thing: I think you have the bones of a decent case against Tesla. Tesla has less capital than established automakers. The Leaf already exists. It’s possible that cars _like_ the Model Ξ will revolutionize American driving, but they will be Nissans, Fords, and Hondas. And then you go and embarrass yourself with posts like this: > [@Magiver](#): > > Tesla has done nothing to revolutionize American driving. GM has always been ahead of the game and if anything the EV-1 is the influence for Tesla. I’m sorry, this is a colossally ignorant statement. How can anyone be that big a Chevy fanboy? Nah, I almost think you work for Tesla, and you’re arguing against them to get us to defend them, so that we develop a brand affinity and buy Model Ξ when it comes out. I don’t know if that fits with all the posts you spent complaining about short-range batteries, but otherwise it actually seems to fit your behavior. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/570 "2015-11-11T05:12:27Z")
Of course an electric car will not revolutionize **driving:** 1. It is not a robot car. It will still require a live, conscious human driver behind the wheel to reach any destination. 2. It is not a flying car. It will still get stuck in traffic. 3. It is not an invulnerable car. It will still be liable to all the destruction of traffic accidents. 4. It is not George Jetson’s car, folding up into a 2-pound briefcase. It will still require a parking space whenever you’re not using it. But it might make it possible for driving to continue even after the cheap petroleum runs out. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/571 "2015-11-11T11:37:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > you’re talking about a toy. This is a car. The decision factors are exponentially higher. Then the Bolt has no chance, because the Leaf is already on the market and has been for years. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/572 "2015-11-11T15:29:28Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > the Model S is a luxury car. People who buy it can afford to have a 2nd or 3rd car without any range. The Model 3 has to be a practical car that people can rely on as a daily driver and get serviced. That requires service centers. At least you’re on the right track now realizing (I think) that we are talking about the 3 and not the S ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/573 "2015-11-12T02:11:25Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Then the Bolt has no chance, because the Leaf is already on the market and has been for years. Nissan has the money to make that happen. Tesla does not. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/574 "2015-11-12T02:14:35Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > At least you’re on the right track now realizing (I think) that we are talking about the 3 and not the S Remember the good ole days when people were extolling the virtues of the Volt and how well it would do? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/575 "2015-11-12T02:20:24Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Remember the good ole days when people were extolling the virtues of the Volt and how well it would do? You know how people wait months to get their hands on a Volt? Oh wait… They only do that for Tesla. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/576 "2015-11-12T02:30:04Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Remember the good ole days when people were extolling the virtues of the Volt and how well it would do? At least for 80 miles ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/577 "2015-11-12T02:54:36Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Here’s the thing: I think you have the bones of a decent case against Tesla. Tesla has less capital than established automakers. The Leaf already exists. It’s possible that cars _like_ the Model Ξ will revolutionize American driving, but they will be Nissans, Fords, and Hondas. > > And then you go and embarrass yourself with posts like this:I’m sorry, this is a colossally ignorant statement. By all means, state your case for Tesla’s advance on technology and how it is going to revolutionize how Americans drive. that’s the question asked. All I’ve done is point out who has the resources and who doesn’t. GM, Ford, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Kia, etc… all have more resources than Tesla and will flood the market with the EV’s they’re working on. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/578 "2015-11-12T02:58:09Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > At least for 80 miles only if it coasted down hill for the first 40 miles. I’ve seen exactly one of them on the road. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/579 "2015-11-12T02:59:20Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You know how people wait months to get their hands on a Volt? > > Oh wait… They only do that for Tesla. well when you’re always late on delivery how could it be any other way? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/580 "2015-11-12T11:32:05Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > well when you’re always late on delivery how could it be any other way? Shall we apply this logic to Apple and how they consistently sold out of early iPhones, forcing people to wait weeks for a consumer gadget, and yet still people couldn’t get enough of it? Wow, Apple was a really crappy company. Samsung and had the resources that Apple didn’t have, so I assume Apple failed as a company a few years back. I haven’t been checking, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537.md?page=30)