# Will the Tesla Model 3 revolutionize Amercan driving? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 30, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537 "2015-07-30T00:07:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/601 "2015-11-15T07:45:07Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > The car didn’t do diddly. > > The man did a tremendous job of raising the idea that ‘ya know, we just _might_ like an electric car after all’. except GM did that before Tesla was making cars. > [@usedtobe](#): > > The ‘Model 3’, if produced (I am using the term ‘Model 3’ as shorthand for ‘credible, usable family car reasonably priced - that happens to be electric’, regardless of who brings it to market first) will be the electric equivalent of the Ford Model T - there had been many, many automobiles before the first Model T rolled off the line - but it was the Flivver that made the US see the future as powered by gasoline, not muscle. It was a matter of price-point on one hand, but more importantly, it was Henry Ford proclaiming the ‘new age’ and the publicity he generated, which made the auto the new vision of personal transport. That’s historical nonsense. Electric cars were quite popular at the time of the Model T. And saying “regardless of who brings it to market first” contradicts what you say in the next paragraph. > [@usedtobe](#): > > The ‘Model 3/the electric Model T’ will come in the next few - from somebody. > [@usedtobe](#): > > It will be an electric which converts the US to a driverless vehicle, in my guess - the electric revolution will occur well before the autonomous vehicle. We already have driverless vehicles and it’s unrelated to electrics or Tesla as an innovation. I don’t understand this statement at all. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/602 "2015-11-16T01:28:31Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > except GM did that before Tesla was making cars. By leasing them instead of selling and yanking them away from people literally begging to keep them? The EV1 _might_ have revolutionized American driving if GM actually wanted Americans to have electric cars rather than merely meeting some law that quickly got changed. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/603 "2015-11-16T01:55:27Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > By leasing them instead of selling and yanking them away from people literally begging to keep them? The EV1 _might_ have revolutionized American driving if GM actually wanted Americans to have electric cars rather than merely meeting some law that quickly got changed. yes by leasing them instead of selling them GM did a tremendous job of raising the idea that we just might like an electric car after all. Which as you said had people begging to keep them. It was a pilot program to test the technology and promote the idea. By leasing it they avoided another potential Oldsmobile diesel fiasco which poisoned the well so thoroughly there are few diesels in this country to date. It’s the first smart thing GM did in the last 50 years. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/604 "2015-11-16T02:13:22Z")
Holy shit, there is no end to the silliness. GM building 1,100 cars and destroying them a few years later was a stroke of genius. Yeah, sure. So in this thread, we’ve learned that Tesla doesn’t use engineering, products that are first to market always win, and that this thread is about electric cars revolutionizing something 100 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/605 "2015-11-16T02:45:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > yes by leasing them instead of selling them GM did a tremendous job of raising the idea that we just might like an electric car after all. Which as you said had people begging to keep them. And the management of the EV1 program and the excitement it developed (which I agree with) was sustained after they took all of the cars away and crushed them? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/606 "2015-11-16T03:00:21Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > And the management of the EV1 program and the excitement it developed (which I agree with) was sustained after they took all of the cars away and crushed them? It appears so or they wouldn’t be making the bolt. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/607 "2015-11-16T03:04:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It appears so or they wouldn’t be making the bolt. Next you’re going to say that GM just ripped off the Henney Kilowatt. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/608 "2015-11-16T03:09:19Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It appears so or they wouldn’t be making the bolt. So you’re saying that the EV1 directly inspired GM to make the Volt 11 years later? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/609 "2015-11-16T03:18:38Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Holy shit, there is no end to the silliness. GM building 1,100 cars and destroying them a few years later was a stroke of genius. Yeah, sure. It was a test program by a major manufacturer that occurred before Tesla even existed. it was on the road before the Prius. It served it’s purpose and they’re building a long range car for mass consumption. In other words, GM was the progenitor of the modern electric car. > [@Ravenman](#): > > So in this thread, we’ve learned that Tesla doesn’t use engineering, products that are first to market always win, and that this thread is about electric cars revolutionizing something 100 years ago. uh huh. hyperbole much? All you’ve done is run your mouth without stating a reason why a car that doesn’t exist will revolutionize American driving ahead of cars that will already be on the market. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/610 "2015-11-16T03:32:27Z")
So you’re saying that the EV-1, with a price tag of $50,000 (adjusted for inflation), two seats, ugly exterior, no storage, 70 mile range, and three hour minimum regards time is the car that set the standard for Tesla to chase? And when Tesla sells a $70,000 car with room for five (plus two kids), two trunks, 30 minute recharge time, and 200+ mile range, they have done nothing new? And to boot, the car that sold 1,100 units is the one that is currently driving the market for a car that is selling twice that many each month? Man, this is getting into “airdrop motorcycles into Benghazi” levels of epically bad GD debating strategies. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/611 "2015-11-16T04:18:32Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It appears so or they wouldn’t be making the bolt. :lol: Okay, I guess I’ve lost interest in your perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/612 "2015-11-16T04:44:42Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So you’re saying that the EV1 directly inspired GM to make the Volt 11 years later? You’re acting as if they made the EV-1 and then walked away and a decade later the Volt pops up. The volt was a natural extension of the EV-1. The Bolt is an extension of the Volt. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/613 "2015-11-16T04:55:04Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So you’re saying that the EV-1, with a price tag of $50,000 (adjusted for inflation), two seats, ugly exterior, no storage, 70 mile range, and three hour minimum regards time is the car that set the standard for Tesla to chase? The EV-1 was never for sale. The lease cost was based on a $33,500 car. Which is the price range of the Bolt. Odd how that works. They construct a test program to gauge consumer needs in the future using an actual car and further research produces a car. It’s not a hard concept to grasp. > [@Ravenman](#): > > And when Tesla sells a $70,000 car with room for five (plus two kids), two trunks, 30 minute recharge time, and 200+ mile range, they have done nothing new? Of course they’ve done something new. They made a luxury EV. It’s a very nice car. That has nothing to do with the point of the thread. > [@Ravenman](#): > > And to boot, the car that sold 1,100 units is the one that is currently driving the market for a car that is selling twice that many each month? Man, this is getting into “airdrop motorcycles into Benghazi” levels of epically bad GD debating strategies. Again, you’re just running your mouth. You literally can’t connect the dots between a car that doesn’t exist and the idea it will revolutionize American driving. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/614 "2015-11-16T04:58:07Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > :lol: > > Okay, I guess I’ve lost interest in your perspective. The alternative perspective is to believe a company that put together an electric car PRIOR to Tesla’s existence and already has a car on the road being tested for the $35,000 market was somehow influenced by another company whose car will come out a year later in the same market. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/615 "2015-11-16T06:26:24Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The alternative perspective is to believe a company that put together an electric car PRIOR to Tesla’s existence and already has a car on the road being tested for the $35,000 market was somehow influenced by another company whose car will come out a year later in the same market. [Here](http://insideevs.com/insideevs-exclusive-interview-with-general-motors-ev1-marketing-director-john-dabels-part-2/) is an interview with the marketing director of the EV-1. > [@](#): > > John Dabels: That’s enough for now. Some parts of the story you might not have heard. When people ask about a conspiracy, I tell them there was no conspiracy to kill the car because we weren’t smart enough to think of one. I’ve given this a lot of thought and I believe the reason the Ev1 died was due more to a lack of understanding inside the company of EV1’s value, rather than some external force. The real story of EV1’s demise might not be as exciting as the film but it is a lesson for all. There is a lot more. Read it and tell me if you think GM as hot and heavy researching electric cars after the EV-1. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Niply\_Elder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@The\_Niply\_Elder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Niply_Elder)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/616 "2015-11-16T08:15:20Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > By all means, state your case for Tesla’s advance on technology and how it is going to revolutionize how Americans drive. that’s the question asked. > > All I’ve done is point out who has the resources and who doesn’t. GM, Ford, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Kia, etc… all have more resources than Tesla and will flood the market with the EV’s they’re working on. I’d like to see a cite for this supposed flood that is about to happen according to you. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/617 "2015-11-16T12:05:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The lease cost was based on a $33,500 car. Which is the price range of the Bolt. Odd how that works. Yes, it’s very odd how you leave out nearly 20 years of inflation and conclude that they both had the same price tag. no more inaccurate than a lot of things you’ve written, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/618 "2015-11-16T14:32:56Z")
So according to Magiver GM is leading the pack by taking only 20 years from first EV (EV1) to a 200+ mile low cost electric vehicle. Tesla will do it in less than a decade. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/619 "2015-11-17T02:20:51Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Yes, it’s very odd how you leave out nearly 20 years of inflation and conclude that they both had the same price tag. no more inaccurate than a lot of things you’ve written, I guess. like the Tesla there were state rebates so the leases were between [$299 a month and $574](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1). So the price range on a 5 year loan would be between $15,000 and $32,000. Adjusted that would be $22,750 or $51,000. Again, you haven’t explained why a car that will be late to the market will influence people over other cars that beat it or why it would influence the cars that beat it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537/620 "2015-11-17T02:31:40Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So according to Magiver GM is leading the pack by taking only 20 years from first EV (EV1) to a 200+ mile low cost electric vehicle. Tesla will do it in less than a decade. May I direct you to the question asked in the thread. It asks if Tesla’s proposed Model 3 will revolutionize American driving. Tesla was not the first to the market with a low priced electric car. That would be GM. It was a test project designed to research the idea. It garnered a lot of positive support and served it’s purpose. They were able to gauge the likely market. Tesla followed with a luxury EV. None of them have made a profit. Their production numbers are relatively low and few people have actually seen one let alone drive it. They will get credit for revolutionizing luxury sports cars. But that’s not what is being discussed. They will be late to the economy model EV and therefore will not be the one to revolutionize American driving. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-tesla-model-3-revolutionize-amercan-driving/726537.md?page=32)