That you don’t get a cookie just because you link to something Google barfed up. That’s actually very embarrassing.
You actually have no idea what I think about this subject, do you? Do you believe I’m a Tesla fanboy after reading the post I linked to, my first one in the thread?
I’ve seen a bunch of articles suggesting the Bolt will be produced and is a “real car”, not some fake compliance vehicle. Here’s one.
http://insideevs.com/chevrolet-bolt-track-q4-2016-production/
So here is an idea, Go out and ask a bunch of people if they want a Tesla 3 when it comes out or a Chevy Bolt. My point is the public perception many times trumps all else and if people wants the Tesla and not the Bolt then the Tesla will drive the revolution not the Bolt despite any advantages it may have.
And, even if the Bolt reaches market first - how may people will decide to “wait for the REAL Tesla”?
At this point, a huge portion of the US equates ‘Tesla’ with ‘Electric Vehicle’.
Kinda like ‘Kleenex’ and ‘facial tissue’.
For all the noise about the EV1, in the end, GM poisoned the well as far as ‘EV from GM’ is concerned.
How many are going to trust GM to stick with a new EV?
I’ve never once even slightly suggested the Bolt is anything other than in test mode. That’s all I’ve said about it. I have no clue if it will be a good car. I’ve cited that Tesla doesn’t have a functional car, is behind on their promises, short of money, and spending money on their other models instead of the gigafactory. The gigafactory is suppose to be the key to making the Model 3 economically. Tesla has put a lot of effort into it’s battery business where they are competitive and they should be focusing on the factory. This is a big deal because they need an edge over larger companies. Now it looks like LG Chem will beat them to the first gigafactory.
That’s the situation as it stands. But in response to that I’ve got nothing but fanboy drama in defense of a car that doesn’t exist that needs a battery factory to make it competitive. No cited support for the Model 3 or reasons why it would revolutionize American driving.
Absent a car to posit an opinion about the only other criteria for influencing driver habits would be an actual car. That’s the only point I’ve made. The only attempt at support for the Model 3 was weak, IF Tesla makes a car that Jesus would personally drive then that will bring the crowds into the tent. Well that bit of logic applies to every car on the planet. Unless of course Mohammad endorses one. And then another thread war starts.
I could care less between one car over the other. I’ll follow all of them because it interests me. But my purchase interest starts when a fast charge battery is invented.
Clickbait garbage. At least the original article has actual figures. The LG Chem factory will product 1 GW-h of batteries per year. The Tesla factory will produce 35 GW-h (actually more than that: Tesla announced that the Gigafactory will be 40% bigger than originally planned).
Of course the author wanted a catchy title and clutched to the “giga” name and thought that 1 gigwatt-hour per year made it a gigafactory. In reality the name means little beyond “it’s really big”; the real claim to fame is that it will roughly double world cell production. The LG Chem factory will increase world production by 3%.
When LG Chem finishes building that one and another 34 factories, then they can claim to have beaten Tesla to the punch.
We’ll find out. I expect Nissan to be in the mix along with other manufacturers.
Do you have a cite for that? Because the 170,000 Leaf owners might have a different opinion on low priced EV’s.
How do you figure they poisoned the well? The car was well received. Their test program wasn’t a secret. It ran it’s course. There’s a really good reason why they didn’t sell a car that cost them $250,000 to the public. It was a test program. Selling it meant they had to tie up a manufacturing plant on a car that loses money and then extend that loss with a parts program. It was never their intent to do this. Tesla loses money on every car they sell. Right now it’s a billionaire’s fancy. If they don’t get a low cost car to market before the other car manufacturers then they lose a huge advantage in public sales.
Tesla needs batteries for it’s powerpack market. Where are they coming from? 1/3 of the factor was suppose to support the Powerwall but that demand has been surpassed. He said he could dedicate the entire fatory to storage. cite.
So. Who isn’t getting the product they ordered? The battery storage market is expanding rapidly and other companies are jumping in. Tesla needs to decide where their future lies and focus on it. They can’t be a day late and a dollar short on 2 fronts.
Actually the EV1 didn’t tie up a plant, meaning a standard mass-production facility. It was manufactured at the GM Craft Center in Lansing, Michigan, which is (was? not sure if it’s still there) a huge facility intended for this type of work as well as other type of work (they’re also the ones who chopped the roofs off of Cavaliers to make the convertible, for example).
The body tooling was all new and state of the art at the time (I didn’t get involved in final assembly), and dedicated to EV1 production. These cars were essentially hand-built. No one ever expected these to be profitable, and it was understood by all that it was an experiment.
Production cost was extremely high, but that’s simple amortization. Had GM planned mass production, it would have built a mass production facility.
Surely you realize how ridiculous this sounds. Tesla doubles world battery capacity, and has two separate product lines where they can still sell as many as they can manufacture, and yet you still spin that as a bad thing?
No one else is even close to their planned production levels, so the idea that they’re a “dollar short” is absurd. Short of what? There’s no one even in their rear-view mirror, let alone pulling alongside them. Tesla thinks their factory will enable them to build 500k cars a year. Unless LG Chem builds a lot more factories of their own, the Bolt can’t possibly sell more than a few tens of k. That’s over “compliance car” levels, but only just barely.
For the record, Tesla has said that they have no intention to stop at one Gigafactory. Replacing all ground transportation with electric and adding enough grid storage to enable solar everywhere will require dozens or hundreds of factories.
I cited what I said and it was quotes by Musk.
I’m not disputing the cites. It’s the idea that a company that controls 50% of world production of a commodity, and has two product lines that use that commodity and on their own could consume their full capacity, is somehow in a position of weakness. Most companies would dream of being in that position. It’s a huge risk reduction for Tesla since it means they can absorb a downturn in either product. Few companies have that luxury.
Speaking of cites, do you have a cite for that? I thought there were about 70k Leafs sold in the US since the car was first produced. Have there really been 100k sold outside the US?
Here’s my cite for the US figure. (I added years in my head, and rounded, and might have made a mistake, but I’m in the ballpark.)
The same source says Tesla has sold about 55k model S cars in the US. Which is fewer than the Leafs sold. But there are a lot more people taking about the Tesla than about the Leaf, even so.
Just so I understand this, you agree that they’re behind on storage systems and this is good for both the Model 3 which depends on those batteries and the storage systems because it’s enviable to have back-orders in both businesses in case one of them loses business?
How does that work out when countries like China step in and make the same product for half the price? If business A is making a product and can’t deliver them and business B makes the same product what becomes of business A over time? Keep in mind that business B is China and will undercut the price.
You are clearly implying that Elon might choose to dedicate the factory to home battery packs and give up on the car business. That is a gross, misleading, and simply wrong interpretation of what the article says:
“The sheer volume of demand is just staggering,” he said. “We could easily have the entire gigafactory just do storage.”
Even if Tesla does boost capacity, battery packs for the Model S and the highly anticipated Model X SUV are still the priority, Musk added.
So you say that the gigafactory might only make home power storage units, even when Elon says that the priority is cars? So much for Magiver citing everything he argues. His cite says the EXACT opposite of what he says it does.
um, OK, were the people with money in their pocket talking about Tesla as they wrote their checks out for the Leaf?
Tesla is talked about in the same way a Mustang Shelby is talked about. Fantastic car, everybody should own 2 of them. In the real world the Ford Fusion outsells the Mustang 4 to 1. The Shelby is a tiny portion of the Mustang market.
Everybody talks about a Ludicrous upgraded Model S. but they buy a Camry.
Look at your posts. You’re not making an argument. You’re attacking me.
Musk stated he had enough business in powerpacks to dedicate the entire gigafactory. I didn’t say he was going to do it. I asked you which customer doesn’t get his product?
You really aren’t listening. Tesla can’t operate by robbing Peter to pay Paul. Something is going to suffer because they are underfunded and behind schedule.
If he pisses away his battery sales for cars then other companies will step in. If he pisses away car sales other companies will step in. His powerpack sales are in a rapidly growing market. EV cars, not so much. They MAY break out but I doubt it without a fast charge battery. 200 miles per charge will certainly put more cars on the road.
You still haven’t come up with a reason why the Model 3 will revolutionize American driving. So far you’re paralyzed by arguing against me instead of arguing your own viewpoint.
You still don’t get it. I’m not saying everyone else is right, I’m saying you’re wrong.
I get it. You can’t come up with an opinion to discuss and attack everything I’ve said.