# Will the U.S. do something stupid Again?? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 22, 2001, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-u-s-do-something-stupid-again/83227 "2001-09-22T18:45:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-u-s-do-something-stupid-again/83227/21 "2001-09-23T03:06:05Z")
To answer the OP, the U.S. has never engaged in indiscriminate warfare. Each and every military operation, from George Washington kicking Cornwallis’ ass to Stormin’ Norman kicking Saddam’s ass, has been conducted with the utmost care for civlians. There has never been a documented case of any American soldier acting improperly in this regard. Most historians agree that American soldiers are well-nigh unto modern-day saints. I don’t intend to provide any cites for this, nor to listen to any contrary information. After all, facts are not required here in GD. And my opinion is as good as anyone else’s, right? - Rick P.S. Sheesh. For those humor- or sarcasm-impaired folks, if any there be, the foregoing was not serious. Anyone too lazy to provide factual cites should be posting in IMHO and/or MPSIMS - no insult intended to the regulars in those fora; merely a commentary on the purpose of having a place to post _opinions_ as opposed to a place to engage in rational, fact-based _debate_. ---
**Author:** ![Mandelstam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Mandelstam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandelstam)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-u-s-do-something-stupid-again/83227/22 "2001-09-23T04:28:28Z")
Hold yer strafin’ some and let’s take another shot at this OP. **Hairy** ’s admitted to using hyperbole and you have made it clear that it wasn’t appreciated. First point: no the US doesn’t engage in “indiscriminate” warfare but its record is not as squeaky clean as some of you would like to pretend. I’m sure I don’t have to tell you about civilian casualities in Viet Nam. Remember the smell of napalm in the morning? And the Gulf War–despite much media hype to the contrary–was very hard on Iraqui civilians. So-called smart bombs were often too dumb to stay on target, one Iraqui city was bombed as a legitimate military target, and, most of all, the country’s infrastructure was destroyed, resulting in many unncessary deaths due to bad food and health. It is not a pretty picture. For cites see the Human Rights Watch’s report on the subject (not available on line). The real point though: what has been the result of this protracted punishment of the Iraqui people? Has Saddam been eliminated? I take such questions to be the intent of the OP despite the hamfisted overkill in the first paragraph. Personally, I like the sound of this proposal (and the rest of the linked article is well worth reading). “In an article for [Salon.com](http://Salon.com), [Michael Klare] suggested that the United States indict Osama bin Laden and his associates as mass murderers and organize a multilateral campaign that pursues their capture as a criminal manner, not a war. Additionally, Klare would have the United States mount an effort to encourage influential Muslim clerics to condemn bin Laden as an enemy of true Islam. “To win over peace-minded Muslims to our side in this struggle,” Klare writes, “we will, of course have to show greater sympathy for their concerns.” That is, recognize context and revisit U.S. policy in the Middle East – not to appease bin Laden (who cannot be appeased) but to construct a coalition that can help us achieve justice without a war that could create new set of problems, such as civilian casualties, instability in important nations, and greater antipathy toward the United States. Klare’s strategy might even be less likely to stir further terrorism than a heavy-handed military-oriented approach.” Source: [http://www.tompaine.com/opinion/2001/09/21/3.html](http://www.tompaine.com/opinion/2001/09/21/3.html) ---
**Author:** ![Mandelstam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Mandelstam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandelstam)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-u-s-do-something-stupid-again/83227/23 "2001-09-23T04:30:26Z")
Yeesh, sorry for misspelled “Iraqi” – long night. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-u-s-do-something-stupid-again/83227/24 "2001-09-23T07:24:38Z")
We’ve already indicted Osama bin Ladin for the Embassy bombings. Y’know, where ~200 Kenyans who worked at our embassy were blown to bits? He is _already_ an indicted mass murderer. If the Taliban wouldn’t release him for the embassy bombings, why are they going to start now? Osama bin Ladin is an indicted mass murderer. We have asked the Taliban to hand him over. They won’t do it. Now, Mandelstam, what do we do next? Ask them again, this time more nicely? No, now we threaten to go in and arrest bin Ladin ourselves. If the Taliban gives him up before the invasion, well and good. If not, we go in and get him. And anyone that shoots at us will be shot back at. Or do you believe that unless the Taliban cooperates we are completely out of luck? Remember, that according the the US and all other countries in the world (except 2), the Taliban is not a government…and in fact Afghanistan has no government at this time. So it would be comparable to an operation on the high seas, where no government exercises authority. Heck, I bet we can get somebody from the last recognized Afghan government to give us permission to go in. Luckily, I can’t imagine that these terrorists will be the type to surrender quietly and stand trial. They will shoot back, and our troops will return fire, and they’ll be mostly killed. ---
**Author:** ![Mandelstam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Mandelstam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandelstam)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-u-s-do-something-stupid-again/83227/25 "2001-09-23T14:33:51Z")
Read what Klare wrote more carefully **Lemur** : a “multilateral campaign” to “pursue [terrorists’] capture” is not a polite follow-up to an ignored request. In fact it need not be all that different from some of the things you describe. The main thing is a) to create as much international consensus and cooperation as possible, particularly in the Middle East, b)to avoid the irresponsible and unhelpful rhetoric of “WAR” (which is _exactly_ what the terorists want) and c) to show the difference between the United States and its terrorist enemies. Moreover, even if one wanted to put ethics entirely aside, on purely pragmatic grounds a “war on terrorism” is a bad idea. **Read the rest of the link I posted.** In the short-run it may appease the media-hyped public hunger for a macho response, and it will play into the hands of hawks and others who love the idea of carte blanche military budgets and wartime non-accountability to the public. But it will do nothing to protect you, me or our loved ones from further terrrorist attacks, and it will do nothing to send the message that the US is a humane and just nation that, however unilaterally powerful, practices what it preaches. What would be particularly unhelpful right now would be the kind of massive bombing campaign of the Gulf War. There–however unethical and ultimately pointless–there was an infrastructure to destroy; in Afghanistan there is not. So that the US and its allies would be perpetuating mindless violence against an already vulnerable and longer-suffering people with no clear tactical object in sight. Beyond that there is the possibility of a ground war with large US and allied casualties and again for what purpose? Have you read anything published on this subject? Historically, even the occupation of Kabul hasn’t meant victory for invaders of Afghanistan. And if Pakistan with its nuclear weapons is driven into civil war and becomes another fundamentalist state as a result of some protracted war of this kind, where is the gain? In fact, the only kind of sane and pragmatic “war on terrorism” would be one that rejects that metaphor entirely. It would probably consist of the kind of campaigns and policies that Klare describes. The ironic thing is that given Americans’ aversion to US casualities, and given the uselessness of bombing Afghanistan, if the US is smart they may well do something less like the Gulf War and more like what Klare describes. Only, insofar as they do, the rhetoric of war itself will retard that purpose. So I think it’s testimony to what is most hypocritical and even quasi-fundamentalist in our country, that we can’t see a way to respond to this horror with conjuring our own counter-_jihad_. ---
**Author:** ![Mandelstam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Mandelstam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandelstam)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-u-s-do-something-stupid-again/83227/26 "2001-09-23T14:37:22Z")
Um, that should have been “with_out_” conjuring our own counter-_jihad_. Sorry–tough morning 😉 ---
**Author:** ![HairyPotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@HairyPotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HairyPotter)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-u-s-do-something-stupid-again/83227/27 "2001-09-23T15:04:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by reprise \* > \*\*You are aware that both the NATO and the ANZUS treaties have been invoked by America’s allies, aren’t you? Both of those treaties require that the US actually consults with the allies supporting it rather than launching unilateral military action. > > _ **Text Deleted** _ > > In the past the US has launched some military actions which IMHO were unwise and unjustified, but unless you have some information about the battle plans for the current campaign which the rest of us are not privy to, please don’t inflame an already tense situation with your speculation - the tabloids are doing a far better job of preying on people’s fear than you ever could. \*\* My intent was not to inflame; I have no love of sensationalism. I am speakin in fear of seeing mistakes repeated by the U.S. In Vietnam, the U.S. largely ignored the Vietnamese culture, ultimately unleashing the worst bombing since WWII on a tiny nation that respected tremendous power withheld (“United States Policy and the Third World; Problems and Analysis”, Charles Wolf). In Iraq, the U.S. again engaged in massive bombardment and a show of force that included numerous acts regarded as war crimes by authoritative individuals (“War Crimes, A Report on United States War Crimes Against Iraq”, Ramsey Clark and others). It should be very understandable that I am very frightened by the prospect of the U.S. repeating policy and actions that will only make a bad situation worse, resulting in our allying potential friends to our terrorist enemies. I am interested in hearing if others share this fear. I am even more interested in hearing opinions or information that would point to a constructive change in U.S. policy. I got of too an impulsive, undisciplined start in this OP, but my intention was to stimulate useful discussion, and not to inflame an already traumatized public. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-u-s-do-something-stupid-again/83227/28 "2001-09-23T20:38:22Z")
I agree that a massive and indiscriminate bombing campaign isn’t going to work. And I agree that getting our allies on line is a must. And making sure that moderate arab governments are not offended is essential. But why are you so convinced that all Bush wants to do is drop thousands of tons of bombs on Afghanistan? Have you been listening to the speeches? But, we are going to have to get rid of the Taliban. Even if they turned over OBL, they will still be harboring terrorists. We must establish a government that doesn’t allow that. Everyone is frightened by the history of military actions in Afghanistan. But, what were the objectives of those invasions? If we want to occupy the country indefinately and run it as a colony, then we will fail. If we want to help the Afghans get rid of the Taliban then we can easily succeed. That will mean ground troops. That doesn’t neccesarily mean heavy casualties either. If we’re smart most of the Afghans will support us…as long as we don’t overstay our welcome. If ground troops are still stationed in Afghanistan five years from now, I would imagine that they will be subjected to constant guerilla raids. But hopefully it won’t come to that. There is going to be fighting. People are going to get shot, and bombs are going to be dropped. So what? ---
**Author:** ![curious\_george](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b487fb/32.png) [@curious\_george](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curious_george)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2001, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-u-s-do-something-stupid-again/83227/29 "2001-10-02T22:33:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by HairyPotter \* > A typical U.S. response to an international crisis is to come in with both guns blazing,…Personally, I’m scared to death that the U.S. is likely to succeed in making a bad situation worse. The US does have a long list of military intervention. Were they all justified with good results? I think not. From: Z. G. \<[mtn@igc.org](mailto:mtn@igc.org)\> PLEASE CIRCULATE +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ A CENTURY OF U.S. MILITARY INTERVENTIONS: From Wounded Knee to Afghanistan Compiled by Z. G. (revised 09/20/01) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The following is a partial list of U.S. military interventions from 1890 to 2001. This guide does NOT include: \*Demonstration duty by military police \*Mobilizations of the National Guard \*Offshore shows of naval strength \*Reinforcements of embassy personnel \*The use of non-Defense Department personnel (such as the DEA) \*Military exercises \*Non-combat mobilizations \*The permanent stationing of armed forces \*Covert actions where the U.S. did not play a command and control role \*The use of small hostage rescue units \*Most uses of proxy troops \*U.S. piloting of foreign warplanes \*Covert operations not directly involving the Dep’t of Defense \*Foreign disaster assistance \*Military training and advisory programs not involving direct combat \*Civic action programs and many other military activities. Among sources used, besides news reports, are the Congressional Record (23 June 1969), 180 Landings by the U.S. Marine Corps History Division, Ege & Makhijani in Counterspy (July-Aug. 1982), and Daniel Ellsberg in Protest & Survive. “Instances of Use of United States Forces Abroad, 1798-1993” by Ellen C. Collier of the Library of Congress Congressional Research Service. SOUTH DAKOTA 1890 (-?) Troops 300 Lakota Indians massacred at Wounded Knee. ARGENTINA 1890 Troops Buenos Aires interests protected. CHILE 1891 Troops Marines clash with nationalist rebels. HAITI 1891 Troops Black workers revolt on U.S.-claimed Navassa Island defeated. IDAHO 1892 Troops Army suppresses silver miners’ strike. HAWAII 1893 (-?) Naval, troops Independent kingdom overthrown, annexed. CHICAGO 1894 Troops Breaking of rail strike, 34 killed. NICARAGUA 1894 Troops Month-long occupation of Bluefields. CHINA 1894-95 Naval, troops Marines land in Sino-Japanese War. KOREA 1894-96 Troops Marines kept in Seoul during war. PANAMA 1895 Troops, naval Marines land in Colombian province. NICARAGUA 1896 Troops Marines land in port of Corinto. CHINA 1898-1900 Troops Boxer Rebellion fought by foreign armies. PHILIPPINES 1898-1910(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, killed 600,000 Filipinos. CUBA 1898-1902(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still hold Navy base. PUERTO RICO 1898(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, occupation continues. GUAM 1898(-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still use as base. MINNESOTA 1898(-?) Troops Army battles Chippewa at Leech Lake. NICARAGUA 1898 Troops Marines land at port of San Juan del Sur. SAMOA 1899(-?) Troops Battle over succession to throne. NICARAGUA 1899 Troops Marines land at port of Bluefields. IDAHO 1899-1901 Troops Army occupies Coeur d’Alene mining region. OKLAHOMA 1901 Troops Army battles Creek Indian revolt. PANAMA 1901-14 Naval, troops Broke off from Colombia 1903, annexed Canal Zone 1914-99. HONDURAS 1903 Troops Marines intervene in revolution. DOMINICAN REP. 1903-04 Troops U.S. interests protected in Revolution. KOREA 1904-05 Troops Marines land in Russo-Japanese War. CUBA 1906-09 Troops Marines land in democratic election. NICARAGUA 1907 Troops “Dollar Diplomacy” protectorate set up. HONDURAS 1907 Troops Marines land during war with Nicaragua. PANAMA 1908 Troops Marines intervene in election contest. NICARAGUA 1910 Troops Marines land in Bluefields and Corinto. HONDURAS 1911 Troops U.S. interests protected in civil war. CHINA 1911-41 Naval, troops Continuous occupation with flare-ups. CUBA 1912 Troops U.S. interests protected in Havanna. PANAMA 19l2 Troops Marines land during heated election. HONDURAS 19l2 Troops Marines protect U.S. economic interests. NICARAGUA 1912-33 Troops, bombing 20-year occupation, fought guerrillas. MEXICO 19l3 Naval Americans evacuated during revolution. DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1914 Naval Fight with rebels over Santo Domingo. COLORADO 1914 Troops Breaking of miners’ strike by Army. MEXICO 1914-18 Naval, troops Series of interventions against nationalists. HAITI 1914-34 Troops, bombing 19-year occupation after revolts. DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1916-24 Troops 8-year Marine occupation. CUBA 1917-33 Troops Military occupation, economic protectorate. WORLD WAR I 19l7-18 Naval, troops Ships sunk, fought Germany RUSSIA 1918-22 Naval, troops Five landings to fight Bolsheviks. PANAMA 1918-20 Troops “Police duty” during unrest after elections. YUGOSLAVIA 1919 Troops Marines intervene for Italy against Serbs in Dalmatia. HONDURAS 1919 Troops Marines land during election campaign. GUATEMALA 1920 Troops 2-week intervention against unionists. WEST VIRGINIA 1920-21 Troops, bombing Army intervenes against mineworkers. TURKEY 1922 Troops Fought nationalists in Smyrna (Izmir). CHINA 1922-27 Naval, troops Deployment during nationalist revolt. HONDURAS 1924-25 Troops Landed twice during election strife. PANAMA 1925 Troops Marines suppress general strike. CHINA 1927-34 Troops Marines stationed throughout the country. EL SALVADOR 1932 Naval Warships sent during Farabundo Marti revolt. WASHINGTON DC 1932 Troops Army stops WWI vet bonus protest. WORLD WAR II 1941-45 Naval,troops, bombing, nuclear Fought Axis for 3 years; Over 200,000 civilian casualties in 1st nuclear strikes. DETROIT 1943 Troops Army puts down Black rebellion. IRAN 1946 Nuclear threat Soviet troops told to leave north (Iranian Azerbaijan). YUGOSLAVIA 1946 Naval Response to shooting-down of U.S. plane. URUGUAY 1947 Nuclear threat Bombers deployed as show of strength. GREECE 1947-49 Command operation U.S. directs extreme-right in civil war. CHINA 1948-49 Troops Marines evacuate Americans before Communist victory. GERMANY 1948 Nuclear threat Atomic-capable bombers guard Berlin Airlift. PHILIPPINES 1948-54 Command operation CIA directs war against Huk Rebellion. PUERTO RICO 1950 Command operation Independence rebellion crushed in Ponce. KOREA 1950-53 Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats U.S.& South Korea fight China & North Korea to stalemate; A-bomb threat in 1950, & vs. China in 1953. Still have bases. IRAN 1953 Command operation CIA overthrows democracy, installs Shah. VIETNAM 1954 Nuclear threat Bombs offered to French to use against siege. GUATEMALA 1954 Command operation, bombing, nuclear threat CIA directs exile invasion after new gov’t nationalizes U.S. company lands; bombers based in Nicaragua. EGYPT 1956 Nuclear threat, troops Soviets told to keep out of Suez crisis; marines evacuate foreigners LEBANON 1958 Troops, naval Marine occupation against rebels. IRAQ 1958 Nuclear threat Iraq warned against invading Kuwait. CHINA 1958 Nuclear threat China told not to move on Taiwan isles. PANAMA 1958 Troops Flag protests erupt into confrontation. VIETNAM 1960-75 Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats Fought South Vietnam revolt & North Vietnam; 1-2 million killed in longest U.S. war; atomic bomb threats in 1968 and 1969. CUBA 1961 Command operation CIA-directed exile invasion fails. GERMANY 1961 Nuclear threat Alert during Berlin Wall crisis. CUBA 1962 Nuclear threat Naval Blockade during missile crisis; near-war with USSR. LAOS 1962 Command operation Military buildup during guerrilla war. PANAMA 1964 Troops Panamanians shot for urging canal’s return. INDONESIA 1965 Command operation Million killed in CIA-assisted army coup. DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1965-66 Troops, bombing Marines land during election campaign. GUATEMALA 1966-67 Command operation Green Berets intervene against rebels. DETROIT 1967 Troops Army battles Blacks, 43 killed. UNITED STATES 1968 Troops After King is shot; over 21,000 soldiers in cities. CAMBODIA 1969-75 Bombing, troops, naval Up to 2 million killed in decade of bombing, starvation, and political chaos. OMAN 1970 Command operation U.S. directs Iranian marine invasion. LAOS 1971-73 Command operation, bombing U.S. directs South Vietnamese invasion; “carpet-bombs” countryside. SOUTH DAKOTA 1973 Command operation Army directs Wounded Knee siege of Lakotas. MIDEAST 1973 Nuclear threat World-wide alert during Mideast War. CHILE 1973 Command operation CIA-backed coup ousts elected marxist president. CAMBODIA 1975 Troops, bombing Gas captured ship, 28 die in copter crash. ANGOLA 1976-92 Command operation CIA assists South African-backed rebels. IRAN 1980 Troops, nuclear threat, aborted bombing Raid to rescue Embassy hostages; 8 troops die in copter-plane crash. Soviets warned not to get involved in revolution. LIBYA 1981 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down in maneuvers. EL SALVADOR 1981-92 Command operation, troop advisors, overflights aid anti-rebel war, soldiers briefly involved in hostage clash. NICARAGUA 1981-90 Command operation, naval CIA directs exile (Contra) invasions, plants harbor mines against revolution. LEBANON 1982-84 Naval, bombing, troops Marines expel PLO and back Phalangists, Navy bombs and shells Muslim and Syrian positions. HONDURAS 1983-89 Troops Maneuvers help build bases near borders. GRENADA 1983-84 Troops, bombing invasion four years after revolution. IRAN 1984 Jets Two Iranian jets shot down over Persian Gulf. LIBYA 1986 Bombing, naval Air strikes to topple nationalist gov’t. BOLIVIA 1986 Troops Army assists raids on cocaine region. IRAN 1987-88 Naval, bombing US intervenes on side of Iraq in war. LIBYA 1989 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down. VIRGIN ISLANDS 1989 Troops St. Croix Black unrest after storm. PHILIPPINES 1989 Jets Air cover provided for government against coup. PANAMA 1989-90 Troops, bombing Nationalist government ousted by 27,000 soldiers, leaders arrested, 2000+ killed. LIBERIA 1990 Troops Foreigners evacuated during civil war. SAUDI ARABIA 1990-91 Troops, jets Iraq countered after invading Kuwait; 540,000 troops also stationed in Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Israel. IRAQ 1990-? Bombing, troops, naval Blockade of Iraqi and Jordanian ports, air strikes; 200,000+ killed in invasion of Iraq and Kuwait; no-fly zone over Kurdish north, Shiite south, large-scale destruction of Iraqi military. KUWAIT 1991 Naval, bombing, troops Kuwait royal family returned to throne. LOS ANGELES 1992 Troops Army, Marines deployed against anti-police uprising. SOMALIA 1992-94 Troops, naval, bombing U.S.-led United Nations occupation during civil war; raids against one Mogadishu faction. YUGOSLAVIA 1992-94 Naval Nato blockade of Serbia and Montenegro. BOSNIA 1993-95 Jets, bombing No-fly zone patrolled in civil war; downed jets, bombed Serbs. HAITI 1994-96 Troops, naval Blockade against military government; troops restore President Aristide to office three years after coup. CROATIA 1995 Bombing Krajina Serb airfields attacked before Croatian offensive. ZAIRE (CONGO) 1996-97 Troops Marines at Rwandan Hutu refuge camps, in area where Congo revolution begins. LIBERIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners. ALBANIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners. SUDAN 1998 Missiles Attack on pharmaceutical plant alleged to be “terrorist” nerve gas plant. Over 30, 000 civilian casualties. US blocks UN war-crimes inquiry at the security council. AFGHANISTAN 1998 Missiles Attack on former CIA training camps used by Islamic fundamentalist groups alleged to have attacked embassies. IRAQ 1998-? Bombing, Missiles Four days of intensive air strikes after weapons inspectors allege Iraqi obstructions. YUGOSLAVIA 1999-? Bombing, Missiles Heavy NATO air strikes after Serbia declines to withdraw from Kosovo. Continued U.S. occupation as NATO force in southeastern Kosovo. YEMEN 2000 Naval Suicide bomb attack on USS Cole. MACEDONIA 2001 Troops NATO troops shift and partially disarm Albanian rebels. UNITED STATES 2001 Jets, naval Response to hijacking attacks. AFGHANISTAN 2001 Massive U.S. mobilization to attack Taliban, al-Qaeda forces. War could expand to Iraq, Pakistan, and beyond. * * * For more information or with comments and additions please contact: E-mail: [mtn@igc.org](mailto:mtn@igc.org) Permission to reproduce this list in its entirety is granted by the author, please send any published copy to the above address. Also see: List of U.S. military interventions since 1890 [http://www.zmag.org/CrisesCurEvts/interventions.htm](http://www.zmag.org/CrisesCurEvts/interventions.htm) A briefing on the history of U.S. interventions [http://www.zmag.org/grossmanciv.htm](http://www.zmag.org/grossmanciv.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2001, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-u-s-do-something-stupid-again/83227/30 "2001-10-02T22:49:13Z")
Excellent post, GEORGE! Now if I could just figure out what the 1892 suppression of the violent Molly MacGuires in Kellogg, Idaho, has to do with preventing international terrorism, I’d be all set. ---
**Author:** ![Justabot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/58956e/32.png) [@Justabot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justabot)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2001, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-u-s-do-something-stupid-again/83227/31 "2001-10-02T22:53:28Z")
How many times are you going to post this long long posting, curious george? ---
**Author:** ![bashere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bashere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bashere)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2001, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-u-s-do-something-stupid-again/83227/32 "2001-10-02T23:44:42Z")
> [@](#): > > LOS ANGELES > 1992 > Troops > Army, Marines deployed against anti-police uprising. I was here for that fun filled little event. If you want that list to maintain any credibility, you want to drop that one. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-u-s-do-something-stupid-again/83227/33 "2001-10-03T06:06:48Z")
[This](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=89012)(scroll down half way) list is both inaccurate and grotesquely long. Why do you keep posting it? It is oversimple, irrelevant, and factually wrong. Too many examples of “wrongness” to even attempt. ---
**Author:** ![curious\_george](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b487fb/32.png) [@curious\_george](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curious_george)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-u-s-do-something-stupid-again/83227/34 "2001-10-05T21:27:36Z")
Regarding the “30,000 civilian casualties in the 1998 Sudan bombs”, I wrote the author and he said, "Thank you: I don’t know where the hell that figure came from! Someone reposted my list in text form (apparently because people had problem printing my web list). I assumed the list came straight from the website where I had posted it: [http://www.zmag.org/CrisesCurEvts/interventions.htm](http://www.zmag.org/CrisesCurEvts/interventions.htm) On my web list, I have nothing about 30,000 casualties, which is ridiculous. I should have been more careful and seen if something was added to my original list. It looks like the only addition. I will check into this". Good catch, Beagle. The USS Cole is not mentioned on the web page either, but the web page only goes up until 1999. Otherwise, the author says his list is not inaccurate or factually wrong at all. Beyond the Sudan and maybe the Cole cases you cited, which are a small percentage of the list and I have now corrected, what do you think is wrong about it? I think it is very relavant to the discussion. **Moderator** , could you please edit out the part about “30,000 deaths in 1998 Sudan” in my long list above? Better yet, now that I know there is a web page that contains the info, could you delete all or most of my long post with the List of US Military Interventions (leave the intro and ending), and replace it with a reference to the web page: [http://www.zmag.org/CrisesCurEvts/interventions.htm](http://www.zmag.org/CrisesCurEvts/interventions.htm) ---
**Author:** ![HairyPotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@HairyPotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HairyPotter)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2001, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-u-s-do-something-stupid-again/83227/35 "2001-10-06T14:14:36Z")
I am very, very impressed by the restraint being shown by the President and his keepers. They seem to be working very hard to build both alliances and intelligence networks to combat terrorism. It certainly apperars to me that small operations based on intelligence are most likely to reduce the chances for future terrorism. My only caution is that the “War on Terrorism” will be used to justify substantial increases in the military budget. I hope that people will scrutinize any such budget proposals very carefully. If history is any indicator, however, patriotism and fear of the enemy will be used effectively by proponents of higher military spending to promote their private agendas. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-u-s-do-something-stupid-again/83227.md?page=1)