# Will the UK ever shock the world again, this time by abolishing the monarchy? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 25, 2016, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-uk-ever-shock-the-world-again-this-time-by-abolishing-the-monarchy/758298 "2016-06-25T06:52:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![12mgdaily](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/f08c70/32.png) [@12mgdaily](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/12mgdaily)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-uk-ever-shock-the-world-again-this-time-by-abolishing-the-monarchy/758298/1 "2016-06-25T06:52:00Z")
I’m wondering if the citizens of Britain ever get frustrated and annoyed at supporting the Royal Family? I don’t know how much power the Queen has in the legislation of their country. But it appears to a foreigner like myself, that the Royal Family are only figureheads, supported in a lavish lifestyle by every citizen. With recent developments, it’s clear the British public are ready for drastic changes. Would they ever consider justifying the abolishment of their current monarchy? If they did, how would that be accomplished? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-uk-ever-shock-the-world-again-this-time-by-abolishing-the-monarchy/758298/2 "2016-06-25T08:15:40Z")
It’s one of the more popular monarchies in the world, particularly Elizabeth II. Certainly not while she is Queen, at least. It would be more likely that Australia drop her, and even that is a low chance. Denmark and Norway’s monarchies are similarly popular. I’m not sure which country is most likely; the most recent was Nepal, which became a republic in 2008. I’m sure someone will be around to better explain the numbers, but the British Crown has it’s own income and isn’t really a big burden on the taxpayers. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-uk-ever-shock-the-world-again-this-time-by-abolishing-the-monarchy/758298/3 "2016-06-25T08:54:38Z")
From [“How wealthy is Queen Elizabeth? Not as rich as you’d think”](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-wealthy-is-queen-elizabeth-not-as-rich-as-youd-think/) == CBS News == Sept 9th, 2015 > [@](#): > > Queen Elizabeth’s personal fortune stands at about $425 million, according to an estimate from the Bloomberg Billionaires Index. However: > [@](#): > > The monarchy is now worth $87 billion to Britain, according to brand consultancy Brand Finance. That represents a jump of 30 percent from 2012, when the company estimated the monarchy’s value at $67 billion. In 2015, it estimates the monarchy will add $1.8 billion to the country’s economy. > > One driver of that increased value has been the emergence of a new generation of royals, said Robert Haigh, marketing and communications director for Brand Finance. Tourism … ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-uk-ever-shock-the-world-again-this-time-by-abolishing-the-monarchy/758298/4 "2016-06-25T09:05:15Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > I’m sure someone will be around to better explain the numbers, but the British Crown has it’s own income and isn’t really a big burden on the taxpayers. It’s all fungible, though, so not really. Assuming that a republic was cheaper than a monarchy (this isn’t a given, though), the revenues that the monarch is permitted to collect from state property would be available for other purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-uk-ever-shock-the-world-again-this-time-by-abolishing-the-monarchy/758298/5 "2016-06-25T09:10:14Z")
> [@12mgdaily](#): > > With recent developments, it’s clear the British public are ready for drastic changes. As of April, though, they [weren’t ready](http://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2016/04/20/as-the-queen-turns-90-britains-monarchy-is-more-popular-than-ever-infographic/#561da7c3c1f3) for this change. And the monarchy has had a scandal-free run for the last 10-15 years, so support is going up rather than down. More people wanted a republic in the 90s. And realistically, even a figurehead president would usually be a current or former politician, and I’m not sure the current mood is compatible with creating a fancy new job for a politician to hold. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-uk-ever-shock-the-world-again-this-time-by-abolishing-the-monarchy/758298/6 "2016-06-25T09:46:49Z")
Unless we went the whole hog and created an American style Executive Presidential legislature, I doubt that anyone would see any advantage to switching. The Brexit vote was almost entirely based on immigration fears and we may well live to regret it. My personal opinion is that Charles would be wise to pass on his crown to his son, William, who is a lot more popular. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-uk-ever-shock-the-world-again-this-time-by-abolishing-the-monarchy/758298/7 "2016-06-25T10:16:08Z")
Yes this could certainly happen during the reign of Charle’s who is quite unpopular. And I can see a lot of commonwealth countries deciding to remove the UK monarch as head of state while he is “the crown” as well. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-uk-ever-shock-the-world-again-this-time-by-abolishing-the-monarchy/758298/8 "2016-06-25T12:00:59Z")
While Charles might be unpopular enough to increase the anti-monarchy sentiment during his reign, there are a couple of factors mitigating that. 1. William is very popular. Eliminating the monarchy would deprive William of his reign and that won’t sit well. 2. Given the length of ERII’s reign, Charles probably won’t be in there too long. So not a lot of time for momentum to build, esp. with William waiting in the wings. It would take several events to really change things. King Chuck doing a lot of stupid stuff like interfering in politics. And William going into Prince Playboy mode or some such. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-uk-ever-shock-the-world-again-this-time-by-abolishing-the-monarchy/758298/9 "2016-06-25T12:51:07Z")
QEII gets popularity ratings that any elected politician would strangle their own mother for. Charles is seen as a bit odd, so we’re going to have an eccentric King for a while. He’s a thoughtful man (albeit wrong about loads of things) so it’ll be a change to have a monarch who actually has had public opinions about stuff. The UK will be able to handle that. The next generation: William, Kate and Harry - well I think those crazy kids have got their heads screwed on right. Much less formal, much more open, friendly - it’s possible that Charles’s big contribution to the long history of the monarchy is to have brought up a couple of decent sons. Camilla has helped there too - and that must have been an awkward gig. Maybe the young Prince George and Princess Charlotte will turn out to be monsters, but even if that happens the monarchy is secure in the UK until about 2080 or so. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-uk-ever-shock-the-world-again-this-time-by-abolishing-the-monarchy/758298/10 "2016-06-25T13:31:01Z")
The argument I use to my Canadian friends about the monarchy - if we dropped them, we’d have to go to an elected “president”, similar to Italy and Israel. What do those two countries have in common? (Besides a screwed up dysfunctional parliament due to proportional representation) Typically, the figurehead president has no more power than the monarchy. But, it seems that the position becomes a happy hunting ground for recycling boring used politicians. > [@](#): > > Moshe Katsav – the 8th president of the State of Israel. In a landmark and unprecedented case, on December 30, 2010, Katsav was convicted of two counts of rape, obstruction of justice and other charges. On March 22, 2011, in a landmark ruling, Katsav was sentenced to seven years in prison. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-uk-ever-shock-the-world-again-this-time-by-abolishing-the-monarchy/758298/11 "2016-06-25T13:33:39Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > It’s all fungible, though, so not really. Assuming that a republic was cheaper than a monarchy (this isn’t a given, though), the revenues that the monarch is permitted to collect from state property would be available for other purposes. From my previous citation: > [@](#): > > The details of Queen Elizabeth’s _ **personal fortune** _ aren’t disclosed by the monarchy, but Bloomberg estimates her estate as including $160 million of assets inherited from her mother; $110 million in personal property; a $75 million stamp collection; and the $10 million Royal Stud. Bolding, italicising and underlinatation mine This revenue she lives off of is in fact from her own holdings. I seem to remember during some recession many years ago she was taken off their welfare program. The revenue from State property is already being used for other purposes. QEII is worth $425m in her own right, not including any State assets. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-uk-ever-shock-the-world-again-this-time-by-abolishing-the-monarchy/758298/12 "2016-06-25T13:37:03Z")
> [@12mgdaily](#): > > But it appears to a foreigner like myself, that the Royal Family are only figureheads, supported in a lavish lifestyle by every citizen. It may appear so, but that perception is wrong, on several levels. For one thing, the US Presidency costs far more than most people realize. > [@](#): > > Taxpayers fork over $206,337 every hour the world’s most famous plane is in flight, according to Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) documents obtained by the nonprofit Judicial Watch. > > The FY15 cost per flying hour for Air Force One (VC-25A) includes “fuel, flight consumables, depot level repairables, aircraft overhaul, and engine overhaul,” according to the letter from the Department of the Air Force Headquarters Air Mobility Command to Judicial Watch. [http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/its-ridiculously-expensive-to-fly-air-force-one/ar-BBtIbqa](http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/its-ridiculously-expensive-to-fly-air-force-one/ar-BBtIbqa) Also, the British monarchy actually subsidizes the public budget. Several years ago, the Queen turned over some assets or income, in exchange for a fixed amount of money each year. The British taxpayers are financially ahead on the deal. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-uk-ever-shock-the-world-again-this-time-by-abolishing-the-monarchy/758298/13 "2016-06-25T13:48:31Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > …the monarchy has had a scandal-free run for the last 10-15 years Depends on your definition of “scandal”. For instance, Prince Charles has been quiet recently about underwear worship, but continues to be [a major embarrassment](https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2016/05/14/prince-charles-uses-homeopathy-on-his-cows/) on the subject of health care. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-uk-ever-shock-the-world-again-this-time-by-abolishing-the-monarchy/758298/14 "2016-06-25T13:54:38Z")
> [@12mgdaily](#): > > But it appears to a foreigner like myself, that the Royal Family are only figureheads, supported in a lavish lifestyle by every citizen. We did a thread a while ago which showed that the per capita cost for the British monarchy was considerably lower than the per capita cost for the US president. If they abolished the monarchy, they would still need a head of state, paid for at public expense. > [@](#): > > With recent developments, it’s clear the British public are ready for drastic changes. Would they ever consider justifying the abolishment of their current monarchy? The drastic change was essentially a conservative one: a return to Britain alone, not part of Europe. I wouldn’t think that mindset would extend to abolishing such a key component of the British government and historical traditions. > [@](#): > > If they did, how would that be accomplished? An Act of Parliament, passed by both Houses and given Royal Assent by Her Majesty. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-uk-ever-shock-the-world-again-this-time-by-abolishing-the-monarchy/758298/15 "2016-06-25T14:03:26Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Also, the British monarchy actually subsidizes the public budget. Several years ago, the Queen turned over some assets or income, in exchange for a fixed amount of money each year. The British taxpayers are financially ahead on the deal. By “several years ago”, you mean “since the reign of King George III” (although technically it is renewed at every monarch change). See CCP Grey’s video on the [topic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhyYgnhhKFw). ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-uk-ever-shock-the-world-again-this-time-by-abolishing-the-monarchy/758298/16 "2016-06-25T16:58:25Z")
Since this is a matter of opinion, let’s move it to IMHO. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-uk-ever-shock-the-world-again-this-time-by-abolishing-the-monarchy/758298/17 "2016-06-25T21:01:50Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > …and the $10 million Royal Stud… I didn’t realise Prince Andrew was worth that much…😃 There’s likely to be a more stripped down monarchy, along the lines of the Scandinavians and Dutch when The Queen passes. That said, visitors seem to love Buckingham Palace and the Changing of the Guard, so certain traditions may be kept going. ---
**Author:** ![jsquire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jsquire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsquire)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-uk-ever-shock-the-world-again-this-time-by-abolishing-the-monarchy/758298/18 "2016-06-26T00:06:53Z")
Is it a correct assumption that the parts of the U.K. least supportive of the royals are Scotland and Northern Ireland – the parts that just might leave in the wake of Brexit? ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-uk-ever-shock-the-world-again-this-time-by-abolishing-the-monarchy/758298/19 "2016-06-26T00:27:40Z")
> [@jsquire](#): > > Is it a correct assumption that the parts of the U.K. least supportive of the royals are Scotland and Northern Ireland – the parts that just might leave in the wake of Brexit? …and that without EU limits against it, UK could bring back capital punishment against the UKIP Leaders who caused it? “You can keep UKIP but lose The Royals, or you can keep The Royals & lose the Nazis. Choose!” ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-uk-ever-shock-the-world-again-this-time-by-abolishing-the-monarchy/758298/20 "2016-06-26T05:55:39Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > By “several years ago”, you mean “since the reign of King George III” (although technically it is renewed at every monarch change). See CCP Grey’s video on the [topic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhyYgnhhKFw). This is what I was thinking of. > [@](#): > > Further changes came in 2012, when Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne scrapped the Civil List and eliminated separate grants covering royal travel, communication, and maintenance of the royal palaces. He replaced those payments with a Sovereign Grant that pays the queen 15 per cent of the Crown Estate’s annual profit from two years prior. > **[How the Queen's rent collector quietly morphed into a US$17-billion property...](https://financialpost.com/real-estate/property-post/how-the-queens-rent-collector-quietly-morphed-into-a-us17-billion-property-powerhouse)** > > London's Regent Street is a global shopping mecca and the landlord is the Crown Estate, which manages a multi-billion-dolllar property portfolio on behalf of the B… From the full official report. > [@](#): > > Under the provisions of the Sovereign Grant Act 2011, with the exception of the annuity for The Duke of Edinburgh, payment of the other Parliamentary Annuities has ceased. The Queen meets the costs of other members of the Royal Family who perform official duties on Her behalf. > **[mou\_royal\_taxation.pdf](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/208633/mou_royal_taxation.pdf)** > > 357.65 KB [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-uk-ever-shock-the-world-again-this-time-by-abolishing-the-monarchy/758298.md?page=2)