# Will the United States flag ever change in my life time? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 21, 2006, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-united-states-flag-ever-change-in-my-life-time/357628 "2006-05-21T13:37:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2006, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-united-states-flag-ever-change-in-my-life-time/357628/1 "2006-05-21T13:37:52Z")
Must the requirements involve an added or removed state? What else could provoke a change in the United States flag (color, pattern, etc…) in our modern times? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2006, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-united-states-flag-ever-change-in-my-life-time/357628/2 "2006-05-21T14:05:55Z")
Oh, it’s as simple as legislation amending or repealing the current statute and defining the flag pattern in a different manner. It’s an ordinary statute that can be changed by a simple majority vote in Congress and the signature of the President, all that creates a “special” degree of difficulty is the emotional baggage and enormous political inertial mass associated with the flag. I could imagine, for instance, if at some future point there arose a spate of numerous new-state creation (splits of existing states, admissions from outside), a movement to “freeze” the star field at some fixed number. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2006, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-united-states-flag-ever-change-in-my-life-time/357628/3 "2006-05-21T16:30:27Z")
Every once in a while there’s talk of Puerto Rico becoming a state, that might be the best possibility. Probably not all that likely, though. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-united-states-flag-ever-change-in-my-life-time/357628/4 "2006-05-22T03:29:56Z")
Given the emotional weight attached to the flag, the only thing I see that might change the current design is the District of Columbia achieving statehood, which I think is a possibility withing the next several decades. (Indeed, I happen to think it’s more likely than not, but I’m often overly optimistic about these things.) If it does, the flag would almost certainly get a new star. I don’t see any states successfully seceeding, not do I think there will ever be a graphic change simply because we want to (that is, without a change in the composition of the U.S.). I suppose it’s also possible that P.R. would become a state and have similar effect, but I think that’s about a thousand times less likely than D.C. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-united-states-flag-ever-change-in-my-life-time/357628/5 "2006-05-22T03:59:16Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I could imagine, for instance, if at some future point there arose a spate of numerous new-state creation (splits of existing states, admissions from outside), a movement to “freeze” the star field at some fixed number. I can see this happening, because the 51-star flag is [quite fuggly.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/51_star_flag) ---
**Author:** ![Purd\_Werfect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47c2d/32.png) [@Purd\_Werfect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Purd_Werfect)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-united-states-flag-ever-change-in-my-life-time/357628/6 "2006-05-22T04:05:07Z")
Probably no additional state stars, but the US Flag will have one or more corporate logos on it within the next 35 years. I do not know enough about you to wager a guess as to whether this will be in your lifespan. ---
**Author:** ![Malienation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Malienation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malienation)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-united-states-flag-ever-change-in-my-life-time/357628/7 "2006-05-22T04:31:32Z")
**Now this is what I call a damn good question!** Consider the issue of the stars. If, say, Puerto Rico became a state, the number of stars would go to 51. How? Best guess: alternate row of 9 and 8 stars, 3 times. Problem: the upper row of stars would be 9, the lowest would be 8. Not symmetrical, so it would look awkward. Then what? No problem with 52: alternate rows of 8 and 7 stars, 3 times, plus an additional row of 7 at the top. For 53, use alternate rows of 8 and 7 stars, 3 times, plus an additional row of 8 at the _bottom_. Symmetry! The real issue, though, is whether or not this issue has already resolved. Do the People in Charge of the Flag have “on deck” flags they can break out at a moment’s notice should they suddenly need them? And how far do they go? 60 stars? ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-united-states-flag-ever-change-in-my-life-time/357628/8 "2006-05-22T05:17:15Z")
> [@Purd Werfect](#): > > …but the US Flag will have one or more corporate logos on it within the next 35 years. … Like arranging the stars to spell out IBM? ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-united-states-flag-ever-change-in-my-life-time/357628/9 "2006-05-22T05:19:31Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > I can see this happening, because the 51-star flag is [quite fuggly.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/51_star_flag) The alternate design isn’t too bad looking (circular stars). [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:US\_Flag\_51stars\_alternate.png](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:US_Flag_51stars_alternate.png) > [@Purd Werfect](#): > > Probably no additional state stars, but the US Flag will have one or more corporate logos on it within the next 35 years. I do not know enough about you to wager a guess as to whether this will be in your lifespan. The United States of America, brought to you by Sprint! ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-united-states-flag-ever-change-in-my-life-time/357628/10 "2006-05-22T12:09:20Z")
> [@Malienation](#): > > \*\*The real issue, though, is whether or not this issue has already resolved. Do the People in Charge of the Flag have “on deck” flags they can break out at a moment’s notice should they suddenly need them? And how far do they go? 60 stars? Don’t see what the heck’s so wrong with the 51-star rectangular pattern. It’s just as hard to tell at plain sight how many stars there are as it was for most of the 19th century. The circle pattern is just daft, I’m sorry – and disregard ANY bizarre thing anyone sells as “this is the flag Puerto Rican Statehooders want”, it’s probably designed to make them look bad on purpose. But there have been many vexillological minds put to the issue of the tesselation of the stars – The Straight Dope itself worked up to 53: [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3\_303.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_303.html) And off the top of my head I can throw 54 (6x9), 55 (11x5), 56 (7x8). I’m sure the Bureau of Mundane Pointless Stuff at the National Archives has a few of these patterns on standby. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-united-states-flag-ever-change-in-my-life-time/357628/11 "2006-05-22T12:23:52Z")
Flags are about symbolism, design and tradition. The American flag is a bloody good example of a good flag. It should never change. The Union Jack is another, the Candian Flag is another. Flags that should change? All those with the Union Jack in the corner ESPECIALLY New Zealand and Australia! Yes we will lose the tradition if we change BUT we will gain symbolism and design! America has a flag that is fine and dandy and recognisable…A sad proportion of NZers can’t tell the Aus flag from the NZ flag. Time for change. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-united-states-flag-ever-change-in-my-life-time/357628/12 "2006-05-22T13:36:25Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > The United States of America, brought to you by Sprint! Or Nike, or McDonalds, or Coca-Cola, but more likely by Halliburton. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-united-states-flag-ever-change-in-my-life-time/357628/13 "2006-05-22T14:04:10Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > I can see this happening, because the 51-star flag is [quite fuggly.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/51_star_flag) I’d like to see that 51st star just kind of hanging on…half in and half out of the blue field. Elbowing his way in. ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-united-states-flag-ever-change-in-my-life-time/357628/14 "2006-05-22T14:28:25Z")
I’ve always thought that three-quarters of the resistance to DC statehood comes from the unwillingness to change the nice round number of states to an ungainly 51. Not only would the flag be affected, but we could no longer sing “Fifty nifty United States, etc.” Sob! Of course, a reasonable person might think, “Hmm, what matters more, a nice symmetrical star pattern, or that people in the nation’s capital actually get to participate in representative government?” ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-united-states-flag-ever-change-in-my-life-time/357628/15 "2006-05-22T16:58:26Z")
> [@Sal Ammoniac](#): > > I’ve always thought that three-quarters of the resistance to DC statehood comes from the unwillingness to change the nice round number of states to an ungainly 51. Not only would the flag be affected, but we could no longer sing “Fifty nifty United States, etc.” Sob! Of course, a reasonable person might think, “Hmm, what matters more, a nice symmetrical star pattern, or that people in the nation’s capital actually get to participate in representative government?” This is whi I personally refuse to acknowledge the statehood of those places you call Alaska and Hawaii. They screw up the lyric to “NYC” from _Annie_. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-united-states-flag-ever-change-in-my-life-time/357628/16 "2006-05-22T17:55:56Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > I can see this happening, because the 51-star flag is [quite fuggly.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/51_star_flag) And from that link I learned that there’s an NYC Secession movement. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-united-states-flag-ever-change-in-my-life-time/357628/17 "2006-05-22T18:08:36Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > I’d like to see that 51st star just kind of hanging on…half in and half out of the blue field. Elbowing his way in. I was envisioning a 51st star made of misshapen felt crookedly stitched on like the patch on a hillbillies’ overalls. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-united-states-flag-ever-change-in-my-life-time/357628/18 "2006-05-22T19:12:07Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > Or Nike, or McDonalds, or Coca-Cola, but more likely by Halliburton. 😉 Why not all of them? There would be something uniquely American about having our flag plastered with more corporate logos than Jeff Gordon’s car. ---
**Author:** ![Cemetery\_Savior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Cemetery\_Savior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cemetery_Savior)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-united-states-flag-ever-change-in-my-life-time/357628/19 "2006-05-22T19:28:51Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > … **vexillological** minds put to the issue of the **tesselation** THIS is why I joined the SD. -Cem ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-united-states-flag-ever-change-in-my-life-time/357628/20 "2006-05-22T22:01:46Z")
> [@OneCentStamp](#): > > Why not all of them? There would be something uniquely American about having our flag plastered with more corporate logos than Jeff Gordon’s car. So we add D.C. or Puerto Rico as a state and the flag gets 51 corporate logos instead of stars? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-united-states-flag-ever-change-in-my-life-time/357628.md?page=2)