# Will the US become like Europe this century? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 25, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789 "2011-06-25T01:53:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/61 "2011-07-01T01:34:17Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > In addition the US can certainly stop a Red Chinese invasion of Korea, we already have 50,000 troops in Korea to serve as a tripwire force, and in a war against China we can count NATO, the ROK, Japan, and India as allies. In a war to prevent the toppling of the _North Korean government?!_ I rather doubt that. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/62 "2011-07-01T01:46:57Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Thankfully though abortion is still banned and ironically in Northern Ireland the Protestants and the Catholics worked together to keep it banned. Yeah, it’s great, they get to have their cake and eat it too. 1000s of women from Ireland, north and south, go for abortions abroad every year, but the state can pretend to be holier than thou. At least I could afford one if I needed one, plenty of women, couples aren’t so lucky. The state should not dictate what a woman does with her own body. If \*you’\*re against abortion then don’t have one. Rant over. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/63 "2011-07-01T01:50:49Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > And the northern half of Korea shall run under the sway of Beijing. It will prevent the reunification of the Korean people, which has already been delayed too long. Frankly, I doubt there are too many non-Korean Americans who really give a damn about the reunification of the Korean people, and even fewer in actual government and military positions. We’re in South Korea purely to keep Pyongyang from overrunning Seoul. Period. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/64 "2011-07-01T02:08:52Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Yeah, it’s great, they get to have their cake and eat it too. 1000s of women from Ireland, north and south, go for abortions abroad every year, but the state can pretend to be holier than thou. At least I could afford one if I needed one, plenty of women, couples aren’t so lucky. The state should not dictate what a woman does with her own body. If \*you’\*re against abortion then don’t have one. Rant over. Hell, how long ago was it that _divorce_ was finally legalized? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/65 "2011-07-01T02:25:28Z")
1. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/66 "2011-07-01T02:50:24Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > In a war to prevent the toppling of the _North Korean government?!_ I rather doubt that. No, if the Chinese are just there to topple the Kim Dynasty, fine, although the Koreans and Americans should help. I meant if China used that opportunity to puppetize or take over North Korea. > [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Yeah, it’s great, they get to have their cake and eat it too. 1000s of women from Ireland, north and south, go for abortions abroad every year, but the state can pretend to be holier than thou. At least I could afford one if I needed one, plenty of women, couples aren’t so lucky. The state should not dictate what a woman does with her own body. If \*you’\*re against abortion then don’t have one. Rant over. Abortion doesn’t just involve the woman, it involves the fetus too who however has no say in this. The father, and other family members (at least in the US) don’t have any say either despite it being the ending of a human life. My rant is also over. > [@jayjay](#): > > Frankly, I doubt there are too many non-Korean Americans who really give a damn about the reunification of the Korean people, and even fewer in actual government and military positions. We’re in South Korea purely to keep Pyongyang from overrunning Seoul. Period. And to keep an eye on China. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/67 "2011-07-01T03:13:51Z")
**Qin** , we all know how you feel about abortion – you don’t have to keep going over it non stop. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/68 "2011-07-01T03:44:23Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Hell, how long ago was it that _divorce_ was finally legalized? 1995 I do believe. The “[wife-swapping sodomites](http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lisbon-treaty/controversial-rightwinger-helps-coir-cause-1892659.html)” got their way. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/69 "2011-07-01T03:58:33Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **Qin** , we all know how you feel about abortion – you don’t have to keep going over it non stop. I was just responding to **An Gadai** , who of course states well-known pro-choice arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/70 "2011-07-01T04:43:57Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > 1995 I do believe. The “[wife-swapping sodomites](http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lisbon-treaty/controversial-rightwinger-helps-coir-cause-1892659.html)” got their way. Yep. The Fifteenth Amendment to the Constitution of Ireland (to remove the prohibition on divorce) was approved by a referendum vote margin of **0.56%** in November '95. The bill that actually provided for legal divorce was the Family Law (Divorce) Act, 1996. Couples must be separated for four years out of five before receiving a decree of divorce. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/71 "2011-07-01T13:02:26Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Thankfully though abortion is still banned and ironically in Northern Ireland the Protestants and the Catholics worked together to keep it banned. Thankfully, despite the still pervasive influence of the RCC, far [fewer](http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/08/put_the_blame_where_it_belongs.php) Irish (and Italians, Poles, and Spaniards, all also predominantly Catholic) subscribe to the idiocy involved in rejecting evolutionary theory than their American counterparts. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/72 "2011-07-01T13:13:51Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Thankfully, despite the still pervasive influence of the RCC, far [fewer](http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/08/put_the_blame_where_it_belongs.php) Irish (and Italians, Poles, and Spaniards, all also predominantly Catholic) subscribe to the idiocy involved in rejecting evolutionary theory than their American counterparts. Not despite…more likely “because of”. The RCC formally accepts evolutionary theory as true, with provisions for divine investment of souls to human beings after their evolutionary debut. That’s not to say that there aren’t still individual Catholics who view evolution with suspicion, but the official stance of the RCC is that evolution happened. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/73 "2011-07-01T13:16:17Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Not despite…more likely “because of”. The RCC formally accepts evolutionary theory as true, with provisions for divine investment of souls to human beings after their evolutionary debut. That’s not to say that there aren’t still individual Catholics who view evolution with suspicion, but the official stance of the RCC is that evolution happened. Sure, go and get all nuanced and stuff. 😛 No argument from me on your post. My larger point (noted as well by An Gadai) is that despite both countries being superficially quite religious on the whole, relative to, say Sweden, there are very large differences in the degree to which religion influences public policy and private behavior in both countries. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/74 "2011-07-02T00:55:28Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Sure, go and get all nuanced and stuff. 😛 > > No argument from me on your post. > > My larger point (noted as well by An Gadai) is that despite both countries being superficially quite religious on the whole, relative to, say Sweden, there are very large differences in the degree to which religion influences public policy and private behavior in both countries. Certainly religion influences public policy more in Ireland than in the US\> ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/75 "2011-07-02T18:48:05Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > The Evangelicals have political mileage in the US in a way the RCC had perhaps a generation ago, maybe longer. Another generation is all I give them, here. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/76 "2011-07-02T23:31:03Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Not despite…more likely “because of”. The RCC formally accepts evolutionary theory as true, with provisions for divine investment of souls to human beings after their evolutionary debut. That’s not to say that there aren’t still individual Catholics who view evolution with suspicion, but the official stance of the RCC is that evolution happened. I learned the basics of evolution in Catholic school. Not the details, since it was an elementary school, but creationism was never discussed in science class. We learned that the Earth was millions of years old, the ice age, plate tectonics, dinosaurs, etc. I never even HEARD about ID until I was in college – and that was in the media. (I went to a Catholic college, and I’m sure it was talked about in a philosophical sense, or the controversy, etc) ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/77 "2011-07-03T00:10:34Z")
Why would anyone want to be like Europe? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/78 "2011-07-03T00:22:58Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Why would anyone want to be like Europe? Better health, longer lifespans, more vacation, better quality of life, more social mobility… ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/79 "2011-07-03T02:46:37Z")
All those things are highly dependent on which parts of Europe one is living in, no? Would you like to be a Greek, Der Trihs? 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/80 "2011-07-03T02:49:45Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > All those things are highly dependent on which parts of Europe one is living in, no? An inherent flaw in the question asked. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789.md?page=5)