# Will the US become like Europe this century? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 25, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789 "2011-06-25T01:53:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/81 "2011-07-03T02:52:52Z")
True, and so you should probably have qualified your own answer. It’s also interesting that if you really believe that things are better in Europe then you seem to be making an irrational choice to stay here in the US. You could, for instance, move to Ireland if the problem is that you don’t speak any European languages. Or, if you want to put in some effort you could learn French and live in several areas, learn Germany and move there, learn Spanish and move to Spain. All great options, no? Why don’t you take any of them though? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/82 "2011-07-03T02:54:39Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > All great options, no? Why don’t you take any of them though? Because everyone and everything I know is here. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/83 "2011-07-03T02:57:54Z")
I suppose that’s a fair reason…and it answers the general question of why most people in the US wouldn’t want to move to Europe, regardless of which country we are talking about. Right? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/84 "2011-07-03T03:00:09Z")
Yes. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/85 "2011-07-03T19:16:43Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Why would anyone want to be like Europe? Because a continent is a whole lot richer than a person! ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/86 "2011-07-06T10:33:14Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > I have always been under the impression that the southern half of the US is effectively bilingual, with most people speaking both English and Spanish. Is that incorrect? The South? Absolutely not. The Southwest, more so, but I’d say that it’s more concentrated in the Latino community, and even then you’ll find lots of Latinos who only speak English or only speak Spanish. So no, I wouldn’t say that even in the Southwest most people are effectively bilingual. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/87 "2011-07-06T10:45:33Z")
> [@Horden\_Boy](#): > > The USA has all the feel of the teenager who thinks he knows it all, whereas Europe is the mature parent. Just like any teenager, the energy is their, but the attitudes are basically selfish, naive and bigoted. The parent still makes mistakes but understands the value of helping each other, social awareness, that being self-centered only leads others to dislike you (no matter how much you like yourself). > The arrogance of the USA is best summed up in sport: Green Bay Packers - ‘World’ Champions, San Francisco Giants - ‘World’ Champions, Dallas Mavericks - ‘World’ Champions. OK - they’re all champions, even North American champions, but ‘World’? No way - hardly anyone else in the world cares about these parochial sports. Wake up and grow up, USA! Join the rest of the world, don’t try to control it, rule over it, crow over it - the rest of the world is heartily sick of your arrogance (and there is no jealousy involved - why would Norwegians, Swedes, Germans, etc be jealous of a nation with lower quality of life, lower living standards, more poverty, etc?). Soon, China, India and , possibly, even Brazil, will be economically more important. > > Grow up! Ah, a statement completely free of arrogance. Telling Americans to grow up makes about as much sense as telling Europeans to stop being such pussies. And seriously, sports? I had no idea that the winners of the superbowl called themselves the world champions. Which is odd, considering they play in the National Football League. Why on earth would you know this information, let alone care about it? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/88 "2011-07-06T11:36:39Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I was just responding to **An Gadai** , who of course states well-known pro-choice arguments. Actually, no, you’re the one who brought up abortion, for no apparent reason, other than the fact that someone mentioned Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/89 "2011-07-06T13:00:37Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Then again Europe may bankrupt itself with its programs and start becoming more like the US. The United States is more likely to bankrupt itself with its insistence on maintaining a military that is nearly as expensive as the militaries of the rest of the world combined, while paying some of the lowest taxes of any first world country. > **[World Military Spending](https://www.globalissues.org/article/75/world-military-spending)** > > US and world military spending and budgets are very high, almost back to Cold War levels. > **[Tax Tea Party Time?](https://www.forbes.com/2009/04/09/tea-party-taxes-opinions-columnists-bartlett.html)** > > Higher taxes may not be as bad as they seem. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/90 "2011-07-06T13:05:28Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Also culturally Europe seems to becoming more like hte US since immigration is supposedly causing a cultural backlash there, which I’m sure will be used by right wing political movements. Social Democracy only seems to work in countries where nearly everyone is white. I hope European Social Democrats discover that in time. Blacks are more likely to game the system, as they did in the United States with the War on Poverty. Islamic immigrants to Europe have values that are inimical to the combination of secularism and liberal Christianity that exists there. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/91 "2011-07-06T13:18:16Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Social Democracy only seems to work in countries where nearly everyone is white. I hope European Social Democrats discover that in time. Blacks are more likely to game the system, as they did in the United States with the War on Poverty. Islamic immigrants to Europe have values that are inimical to the combination of secularism and liberal Christianity that exists there. :rolleyes: Oh, please. Why don’t just you come out and admit you want everyone darker skinned than you enslaved or rounded up into death camps? After all, they’re all subhuman and Enemies of Freedom, right? ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/92 "2011-07-06T13:35:43Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Social Democracy only seems to work in countries where nearly everyone is white. I hope European Social Democrats discover that in time. Blacks are more likely to game the system, as they did in the United States with the War on Poverty. Islamic immigrants to Europe have values that are inimical to the combination of secularism and liberal Christianity that exists there. I’m not calling you a troll, but reading this, I wish you were one. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/93 "2011-07-06T14:09:30Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Actually, no, you’re the one who brought up abortion, for no apparent reason, other than the fact that someone mentioned Ireland. I mentioned it WRT the Irish situation as an exception to our broadly secular political culture. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/94 "2011-07-06T14:17:48Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Social Democracy only seems to work in countries where nearly everyone is white. Works well enough in India and Japan, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/95 "2011-07-06T14:20:40Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Blacks are more likely to game the system, as they did in the United States with the War on Poverty. What “gaming”? The [War on Poverty](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_poverty) failed because the Vietnam War sucked the funding. (There was that [Cloward-Piven](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy) idea, but it was no welfare-recipient’s idea, and the point was to **crash** the system, not “game” it, and, _pace_ Glenn Beck, nobody to this day has ever actually **tried** it in any form.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/96 "2011-07-06T14:23:10Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Islamic immigrants to Europe have values that are inimical to the combination of secularism and liberal Christianity that exists there. Islamic culture still should fit well with social democracy – it’s all about the _umma,_ isn’t it? And _zakat_ (charity to the poor) is one of the Five Pillars of Islam, a basic moral and religious duty of every Muslim who can afford it (Mohammed was an orphan and never forgot his uncle’s charity to him, which literally saved his life), so shut up and pay your taxes and don’t gimme any shit about “welfare cheats”! ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/97 "2011-07-06T15:48:47Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What “gaming”? The [War on Poverty](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_poverty) failed because the Vietnam War sucked the funding. (There was that [Cloward-Piven](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy) idea, but it was no welfare-recipient’s idea, and the point was to **crash** the system, not “game” it, and, _pace_ Glenn Beck, nobody to this day has ever actually **tried** it in any form.) Then why didn’t the welfare programs alleviate poverty after the Vietnam War ended? Indeed welfare has destroyed black families by encouraging mothers not to marry but have children to milk the welfare system to the fullest. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/98 "2011-07-06T16:00:31Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Then why didn’t the welfare programs alleviate poverty after the Vietnam War ended? Indeed welfare has destroyed black families by encouraging mothers not to marry but have children to milk the welfare system to the fullest. [Because.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiAYmEvuUng) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/99 "2011-07-06T16:08:17Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Then why didn’t the welfare programs alleviate poverty after the Vietnam War ended? Indeed welfare has destroyed black families by encouraging mothers not to marry but have children to milk the welfare system to the fullest. Are you serious? ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789/100 "2011-07-06T16:45:47Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > :rolleyes: Oh, please. Why don’t just you come out and admit you want everyone darker skinned than you enslaved or rounded up into death camps? After all, they’re all subhuman and Enemies of Freedom, right? Show me a black run country with a low crime rate, a well functioning economy, and a representative democracy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-become-like-europe-this-century/586789.md?page=6)