# Will the US Bust Israel's Balls? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 13, 2003, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-bust-israels-balls/174921 "2003-05-13T11:59:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-bust-israels-balls/174921/1 "2003-05-13T11:59:31Z")
The US has taken drastic measures that should (?) be seen as improving the security situation in Israel. There are a large number of other “favors” that the US offers its “special allies”. Now they are refusing to toe the party line in regards to the ME roadmap for peace. Will we bust their balls by witholding aid or something similar, (or stronger :eek: ), to bring them in line with UNSC decisions and US wishes? Bonus Question [How do you suppose the view on the “Arab Street” would change is the US launched an all out invasion of Israel? As If] ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-bust-israels-balls/174921/2 "2003-05-13T12:09:31Z")
If only. We are Isreal’s very best friend, whether they are ours as well is another matter. Further, there is an utterly whack segment of the X-treme Right thats takes its world view as a mixture of the theology of St. John of Revelations and Stephen King. These people honestly believe that Jesus, Prince of Peace, smiles down on thier unholy machinations while he fills ammo clips. If tomorrow morning they are universally afflicted with boils, I will repair to the nearest church to sing “Hosanna!”. (My Sunday School teacher would probably point out that He loves them as well. I sure as hell don’t, but I guess that’s why He’s Jesus and I’m not.) As to the bonus question: they would all mount thier Invisible Pink Unicorns and fly to Mecca. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-bust-israels-balls/174921/3 "2003-05-13T13:00:56Z")
How can a unicorn be invisible _and_ pink? ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-bust-israels-balls/174921/4 "2003-05-13T13:17:10Z")
One big issue for Bush is that he can’t afford to be seen to let Blair down on this issue. As we know – and the world knows - it’s Blair’s big pay back for Iraq. And Colin Powell’s. If Bush wants cooperation elsewhere during his reign (as he surely will), countries all over will be closely following how far Bush is prepared to do out on a limb to fulfill his promises. In addition of course, the US is not exactly flavour of the month in an awful lot of countries (populations and Governments) and this goes some way to appease the dislike / hatred. Finally, it’s item two or three on OBL’s shopping list so, like the Saudi withdraw, whether the US public like it or not (and regardless of what the public message about “fighting terrorism” is), Bush is ticking off items from that shopping list. Fwiw, I think we need to reassess Bush. Because of his uncomplicated approach – and genuine sense of debt to Blair, as well as other factors mentioned above - he may (well) be less susceptible to traditional (US) lobby influences. Of course, foreign policy remains a tool of US domestic policy, as it always has, but this is interesting stuff …. Bush long ago stepped away from the mould of what we’d expect of modern presidents. Watch that Powell/Blair axis go … ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-bust-israels-balls/174921/5 "2003-05-13T13:23:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > \*\* > Finally, it’s item two or three on OBL’s shopping list so, like the Saudi withdraw, whether the US public like it or not (and regardless of what the public message about “fighting terrorism” is), Bush is ticking off items from that shopping list. > \*\* Do you mean that withdrawl of US military forces from Saudi Arabia is an effort for Bush to meet OBL’s demands? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-bust-israels-balls/174921/6 "2003-05-13T13:24:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SimonX \* > The US has taken drastic measures that should (?) be seen as improving the security situation in Israel. There are a large number of other “favors” that the US offers its “special allies”. Now they are refusing to toe the party line in regards to the ME roadmap for peace. In Israel’s view, the roadmap for peace requires that the Palestinians actively work to end Palestinian terror attacks, but they have not yet done so. Furthermore, Arafat still retains a great deal of power. E.g., half of the heads of security organizations report to him. > [@](#): > > Will we bust their balls by witholding aid or something similar, (or stronger :eek: ), to bring them in line with UNSC decisions and US wishes? Clearly the US has the power to do this. Note that the RMP contradicts Bush’s statements earlier in his Presidency that peace cannot be imposed from outside; it must come from negotiations between the two parties. For this reason, I suspect that Bush may not be that committed to the RFP. I agree with **LC** , that this is Bush’s payback to Blair. Bush may consider that a moderate, good faith effort would to sufficient payback. > [@](#): > > Bonus Question > [How do you suppose the view on the “Arab Street” would change is the US launched an all out invasion of Israel? As If] What does this point mean? Do you favor Israel’s destruction? ---
**Author:** ![OliverH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/278dde/32.png) [@OliverH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OliverH)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-bust-israels-balls/174921/7 "2003-05-13T13:26:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*In Israel’s view, the roadmap for peace requires that the Palestinians actively work to end Palestinian terror attacks, but they have not yet done so. \*\* Hm, exactly how non-active does one have to be to be participant in a firefight with militants? ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-bust-israels-balls/174921/8 "2003-05-13T13:31:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carnivorousplant \* > Do you mean that withdrawl of US military forces from Saudi Arabia is an effort for Bush to meet OBL’s demands? The US leaving the main man in OPEC, a long-term ally, an important source of (oil) stability in the world and before the recent acquisition (Iraq) comes online … IMHO, it’s about appeasing Arab and Muslim opinion in general, and of which OBL is a manifestation of the radical wing of that opinion. What else could it be, you think it’s a coincidence ? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-bust-israels-balls/174921/9 "2003-05-13T13:33:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*What does this point mean? Do you favor Israel’s destruction? \*\* It’s not so much of a point as it is a question. Did the US invasion of Iraq constitute the destruction of Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-bust-israels-balls/174921/10 "2003-05-13T13:37:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > **One big issue for Bush is that he can’t afford to be seen to let Blair down on this issue. As we know – and the world knows - it’s Blair’s big pay back for Iraq. And Colin Powell’s.** I disagree. We owe Blair a thanks and not much else, and because of the strong friendship the US wouldn’t like to see Iraq be Blair’s political death knell. But whether or not that translates into pushing the road map without the “immediate cessation of violence” the road map calls for is another matter. I doubt there’s a mandate for that here in the US. I’m interested myself in how it all plays out. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-bust-israels-balls/174921/11 "2003-05-13T13:50:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > \*\* > > What else could it be, you think it’s a coincidence ? \*\* A swipe at them for not supporting the US in the Iraq war? Reward for Qatar who did cooperate? I think it’s an effort to get out of the difficulty of Saudi Arabia while a winner and not appearing to acquiesce to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-bust-israels-balls/174921/12 "2003-05-13T14:11:15Z")
Simon: Will the US bust Israel’s balls? I surely hope so. But I haven’t seen anything concrete you to see that that is going to happen. I belieive the I/P situation is the biggest threat to the US currently in the world. It is the main reason so much of the Muslim world dislikes us. And, it’s the right thing to do to fix that situation. I have no inherent ill-will toward Israel. But, frankly, I can’t see how they help the US in any significant way to offset the huge liability they have become. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-bust-israels-balls/174921/13 "2003-05-13T14:19:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tee \* > \*\*I disagree. We owe Blair a thanks and not much else, and because of the strong friendship the US wouldn’t like to see Iraq be Blair’s political death knell. But whether or not that translates into pushing the road map without the “immediate cessation of violence” the road map calls for is another matter. I doubt there’s a mandate for that here in the US. > > I’m interested myself in how it all plays out. \*\* So GWB has no obligation to honor his own word? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-bust-israels-balls/174921/14 "2003-05-13T14:22:57Z")
Bush I had baker bust them by witholding loan guarantees , _for a bit_. Israel was responsive. It doesn’t seem like it would be hard to sell the idea of witholding Israeli foreign aid to the US populace to encourage compliance. If one wanted to. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-bust-israels-balls/174921/15 "2003-05-13T14:25:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SimonX \* > \*\* > It doesn’t seem like it would be hard to sell the idea of witholding Israeli foreign aid to the US populace to encourage compliance. > \*\* Surely you jest. When the Palestinians hear about the peace proposal and kill ore people to celebrate? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-bust-israels-balls/174921/16 "2003-05-13T14:35:47Z")
If one wanted to, one could make and SELL the case that since Israel is flouting UNSC resolutions and more importantly, US wishes. Giving away US taxpayer’s money to support countries that won’t listen to US demands could be sold very easily. It’s not like trying to sell an **invasion**. We’re just talking about witholding money to encourage compliance. ---
**Author:** ![Hammer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/bc79bd/32.png) [@Hammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hammer)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-bust-israels-balls/174921/17 "2003-05-13T15:19:28Z")
I think there will be pressure on Israel. I think that pressure will be relieved when the Palestinian terrorist continue to sabotage the peace efforts. I think that Arafat and most of his backers will have to be six feet under before there is any real shot at peace. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-bust-israels-balls/174921/18 "2003-05-13T19:20:44Z")
> [@](#): > > How can a unicorn be invisible and pink? Ineffability. ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-us-bust-israels-balls/174921/19 "2003-05-14T11:16:47Z")
I really would like to see the US put some genuine pressure on Israel, rather than just turning a blind eye as usual or a verbal slap on the wrist. However, i just don’t think it’s going to happen. The US will talk tough for a while and make a pretense of getting this thing off the ground, but after a couple of months of waffling and broken cease-fires, public attention will wander to a different topic, and the US will quietly let the whole thing fade away and allow Israel to do as it wants with impunity again. Oh, and they will of course continue to funnel billions of dollars worth of aid and weapons to Israel throughout the whole process…