# Will the video of Brown in the convenience store be admitted as evidence in Wilson's prosecution? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 18, 2014, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-video-of-brown-in-the-convenience-store-be-admitted-as-evidence-in-wilsons-prosecution/695856 "2014-08-18T22:20:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-video-of-brown-in-the-convenience-store-be-admitted-as-evidence-in-wilsons-prosecution/695856/41 "2014-08-20T16:10:46Z")
> [@omar little](#): > > hmmm…i did a test with bricker’s post, with the comment: Test! And it did not change the quote, but when i post the comment: Racist! It does put everything including the quoted material in lowercase. Forum glitch or some setting that doesn’t like the word racist in all caps. iswydt \<---- Perhaps it’s the specific word “TEST” that gets green-flagged, the above inoffensive acronym invoked the feature. As you can see. ETA: While illogically still leaving the words “Test” and “Racist” in mixed case while clobbering everything else including your name. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-video-of-brown-in-the-convenience-store-be-admitted-as-evidence-in-wilsons-prosecution/695856/42 "2014-08-20T16:12:25Z")
> [@malacandra](#): > > exactly so. Which, while perhaps **grude** should have noticed at the time, means he was just falling foul of a software “feature” that i thought **it** should have known about. Admittedly i also had the option of not playing mr buttinski, but eh. all caps ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-video-of-brown-in-the-convenience-store-be-admitted-as-evidence-in-wilsons-prosecution/695856/43 "2014-08-20T18:19:42Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > The court will accept an innocent mistake of identity. However that is not this case. > However the video is useless as it does not show any dire need to ruthlessly arrest anyone. There was no cause for any panic proved by the video , so it won’t help the police case. If the defense want to ask for that video to be played, they only hurt their case. > > However prosecutors may be compelled to show all evidence they have , whether it suits them or not. > > I figure prosecutors would use the tape if they can, to show that there never was any cause to be ruthless, undisciplined… the police officer was crazy for no reason. Are you talking about the rules of evidence in any part of the above commentary? ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-video-of-brown-in-the-convenience-store-be-admitted-as-evidence-in-wilsons-prosecution/695856/44 "2014-08-20T18:23:36Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > i wouldn’t trust Facebook(or rather the people on Facebook) if I was told water is wet. Oh yeah, well _I_ saw on FB that he actually paid for the items and that part of the video was intentionally cut out. So there. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-video-of-brown-in-the-convenience-store-be-admitted-as-evidence-in-wilsons-prosecution/695856/45 "2014-08-20T20:05:58Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Oh yeah, well _I_ saw on FB that he actually paid for the items and that part of the video was intentionally cut out. So there. 🙂 So the Asian shopkeeper is on the conspiracy to keep the black man down! ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-video-of-brown-in-the-convenience-store-be-admitted-as-evidence-in-wilsons-prosecution/695856/46 "2014-08-20T23:19:27Z")
This is what I just saw on FB. I have no idea if it’s true or not, so I come to you, my beloved Straight Dopers. [http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/08/18/ferguson-pd-busted/](http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/08/18/ferguson-pd-busted/) ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-video-of-brown-in-the-convenience-store-be-admitted-as-evidence-in-wilsons-prosecution/695856/47 "2014-08-20T23:23:33Z")
And just now this: [Attorney For Ferguson Market: NO ONE From His Store Called 911 To Report Cigar Theft](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/18/1322560/-Ferguson-Store-Owner-Says-NO-ONE-From-His-Store-Called-Cops-To-Report-Cigar-Theft) ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-video-of-brown-in-the-convenience-store-be-admitted-as-evidence-in-wilsons-prosecution/695856/48 "2014-08-20T23:34:38Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > This is what I just saw on FB. I have no idea if it’s true or not, so I come to you, my beloved Straight Dopers. > [http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/08/18/ferguson-pd-busted/](http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/08/18/ferguson-pd-busted/) Really? When did you see money? I see him reaching across the counter into the booth where customers are not allowed. Those items are kept behind the counter in ever I convenience store I know. Easily stolen. Grabbing a bunch, dropping some on the floor and leaving after pushing the clerk. The clerk may have called or maybe someone else in the store. I don’t find it hard to believe that the store owners might be trying to distance themselves from it now. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-video-of-brown-in-the-convenience-store-be-admitted-as-evidence-in-wilsons-prosecution/695856/49 "2014-08-20T23:39:25Z")
I will find it very hard to believe that all the calls to the police station aren’t taped. This will be easily verified as false or not after the evidence is presented formally. No need to rely on incredibly biased sites. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-video-of-brown-in-the-convenience-store-be-admitted-as-evidence-in-wilsons-prosecution/695856/50 "2014-08-20T23:42:36Z")
The cigars he leaved with are the bunch that fell on the ground after he grabbed the entire display box. He immediately went for the door after scooping them off the floor. When did he buy them? From that clip it is easy to see why they are not charging Johnson. He is handed some cigars but he puts them back on the counter. It looks like he wants nothing to do with the theft and did not take part. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-video-of-brown-in-the-convenience-store-be-admitted-as-evidence-in-wilsons-prosecution/695856/51 "2014-08-20T23:53:07Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Really? When did you see money? I see him reaching across the counter into the booth where customers are not allowed. Those items are kept behind the counter in ever I convenience store I know. Easily stolen. Grabbing a bunch, dropping some on the floor and leaving after pushing the clerk. The clerk may have called or maybe someone else in the store. I don’t find it hard to believe that the store owners might be trying to distance themselves from it now. I can’t view it myself. That’s why I brought it here. Sorry if I wasn’t clear. I was just curious. I have a feeling we’re never going to know the truth about any of this. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-video-of-brown-in-the-convenience-store-be-admitted-as-evidence-in-wilsons-prosecution/695856/52 "2014-08-21T00:15:23Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > I can’t view it myself. That’s why I brought it here. Sorry if I wasn’t clear. I was just curious. I have a feeling we’re never going to know the truth about any of this. We may not know what happened on the street. That’s unclear now since we don’t know yet what the witness information is or if it fits the physical evidence. But it’s pretty clear what happened in the store. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-video-of-brown-in-the-convenience-store-be-admitted-as-evidence-in-wilsons-prosecution/695856/53 "2014-08-21T00:44:06Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > I can’t view it myself. That’s why I brought it here. Sorry if I wasn’t clear. I was just curious. I have a feeling we’re never going to know the truth about any of this. I linked a cite in post 18 that says his buddy testified to the theft. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-video-of-brown-in-the-convenience-store-be-admitted-as-evidence-in-wilsons-prosecution/695856/54 "2014-08-21T13:57:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I linked a cite in post 18 that says his buddy testified to the theft. I know! Good job! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-video-of-brown-in-the-convenience-store-be-admitted-as-evidence-in-wilsons-prosecution/695856/55 "2014-08-21T14:24:14Z")
I’m trying to decide if I agree with **RNATB** that the prosecution can keep the video out by stipulating to the theft. Normally, the purpose of admitting evidence is to assist the jury (or the judge at a bench trial) to decide the truth of any issue of fact. In this case, the video is admissible for the purpose of showing Brown’s state of mind immediately after the robbery. The defense’s theory of the case will be that Brown violently attacked the officer; the prosecution enjoys the presumption that people don’t typically violently attack others, especially police, for no reason. So the defense is entitled to show the tape in order to say to the jury, “Look, see this? Here’s the reason Brown was willing to be so violent: he thought he was in danger of arrest from the cigar robbery.” So **RNATB** says that the prosecution can keep the video out by saying to the jury, “We and the defense both agree that there was a cigar store robbery, and that Brown was guilty of that robbery, and the robbery happened just a few minutes before Brown encountered Wilson.” Now the jury knows the fact, and the defense can’t claim it’s prejudiced by the existence of the robbery being hidden…but there’s no need to show the tape. If I were on the defense, I’d probably try to argue some kind of _res gestae_ applied. I’d say that the mere stipulation doesn’t completely or correctly capture the whole story. But in reality, it kinda does, especially since the prosecutor’s obvious rebuttal is, “OK, what should I add – what else do you want to tell the jury?” I’d also argue something akin to the Best Evidence Rule. Generally, if there’s a choice of how to prove a fact, you are obligated to use the best way to do so (a document original instead of a copy, for example). That’s a weak argument too, for reasons I’m too lazy to type out. I’m beginning to think that I was wrong in my blanket claim. The FACT of the robbery will come in; the video might not. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-video-of-brown-in-the-convenience-store-be-admitted-as-evidence-in-wilsons-prosecution/695856/56 "2014-08-21T14:32:44Z")
The tape has more than just a possible robbery. It shows a man, possibly Brown, shoving a convenience story clerk. This makes officer Wilson’s story - that Brown physically attacked him, leading to an injury, much more believable. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-video-of-brown-in-the-convenience-store-be-admitted-as-evidence-in-wilsons-prosecution/695856/57 "2014-08-21T14:42:03Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > The tape has more than just a possible robbery. It shows a man, possibly Brown, shoving a convenience story clerk. This makes officer Wilson’s story - that Brown physically attacked him, leading to an injury, much more believable. Well, yeah. That’s what robbery is. If there wasn’t force it would be a theft. Bricker is saying that it’s possible that the video may not be allowed once the theft with force is stipulated. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-video-of-brown-in-the-convenience-store-be-admitted-as-evidence-in-wilsons-prosecution/695856/58 "2014-08-21T14:46:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If I were on the defense, I’d probably try to argue some kind of _res gestae_ applied. I’d say that the mere stipulation doesn’t completely or correctly capture the whole story. But in reality, it kinda does, especially since the prosecutor’s obvious rebuttal is, “OK, what should I add – what else do you want to tell the jury?” That last question was basically my thought process. I considered what inferences the jury might make from viewing the video that it could not make from a “dry” stipulation regarding the facts of the robbery. Then I eliminated all the impermissible and irrelevant ones and there was nothing left. The real question (that is, the one I couldn’t answer) was whether there were tactical considerations which might make it less attractive for the prosecution to stipulate to the facts of the robbery. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-video-of-brown-in-the-convenience-store-be-admitted-as-evidence-in-wilsons-prosecution/695856/59 "2014-08-21T14:51:08Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > I say “yes”. Even though Wilson was not aware of the robbery and that Brown and Johnson were potential suspects, it goes to Brown’s state of mind when Johnson rolled up in his police cruiser. It has been confirmed by the chief of police, several times, that Wilson was, in fact, aware of the robbery, that the initial stop was not related to the robbery, but during the stop, seeing cigars in Brown’s hands, Wilson suspected him of the robbery. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-video-of-brown-in-the-convenience-store-be-admitted-as-evidence-in-wilsons-prosecution/695856/60 "2014-08-21T14:58:58Z")
With all due respect to the lofty station to which he has risen, I’m not sure the chief has a whole lot of credibility at this point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-video-of-brown-in-the-convenience-store-be-admitted-as-evidence-in-wilsons-prosecution/695856.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-video-of-brown-in-the-convenience-store-be-admitted-as-evidence-in-wilsons-prosecution/695856.md?page=4)