# Will the wester ever make a coemback? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 12, 2015, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-wester-ever-make-a-coemback/734390 "2015-10-12T00:57:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-wester-ever-make-a-coemback/734390/21 "2015-10-12T14:48:33Z")
We still have westerns. They just aren’t as all pervasive as they were in the fifties, is all. That, and westerns aren’t the low budget thing they used to be, where you could just hire a movie ranch in Death Valley, rent a western town or set, and all your actors already knew how to ride because that’s how you got a part in a Western back in the fifties. Now it takes a bit more than that. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-wester-ever-make-a-coemback/734390/22 "2015-10-12T15:22:06Z")
Just watched Unforgiven last night. It was freakin awesome. Sadly Richard Harris is dead and Gene Hackman is retired but we still have Morgan Freeman and Clint Eastwood still working. Good stories will always be good. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-wester-ever-make-a-coemback/734390/23 "2015-10-12T15:25:11Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Part of it is the “real” west is really beginning to fade whereas back when many of the classical westerns were made, people were not far removed from those times and indeed, some artifacts were still common. Like they could talk to family members who were pioneers who really did ride horses and wagons. Cattle and ranching culture was common and real and not a tourist attraction. True… but I always thought a big part of the attraction to Westerns for audiences was that it was a period where there was room for heroes. Ever since, the sort of locked-down nature of the world, between faster communications, better policing, and effective court systems has meant that there’s little room for the archetypical everyman to step up and become a hero or go on a quest or whatever. In the modern constrained world, there’s no going out into the West and becoming Jeremiah Johnson. There’s no being Wyatt Earp… he’d have been snowed under by a tangle of rules of engagement, concern for the Cowboys’ civil rights, and a mountain of Internal Affairs investigations, civilian lawsuits for hearing loss, etc… Plus, from a writer’s perspective, the Old West was wide-open. You could make up your own little towns with their own bad guys, and then have your heroes solve the problem. I kind of think that sort of… freedom that the Old West represented, both to audiences and writers will eventually come back into vogue, although it may take a while for the Old West to become re-romanticized to the point where a remake of “Gunsmoke” would be successful on TV. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-wester-ever-make-a-coemback/734390/24 "2015-10-12T15:43:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Ludovic** : > > About the only thing I can think of that has some truth to it that was featured prominently in Westerns, but is no longer or is just for tourists, is the old western frontier/boomtown (even though there are also differences, for instance, more gun control than typically shown in the Western.) Beg pardon? There are plenty of boomtowns right now in Montana and North Dakota. The boom nowadays is oil instead of gold, but that hardly changes anything. ---
**Author:** ![Bonaventure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c57346/32.png) [@Bonaventure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bonaventure)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-wester-ever-make-a-coemback/734390/25 "2015-10-12T15:50:03Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Beg pardon? There are plenty of boomtowns right now in Montana and North Dakota. The boom nowadays is oil instead of gold, but that hardly changes anything. And they’re even making cheesy prime time shows about them: [Blood & Oil - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_%26_Oil) ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-wester-ever-make-a-coemback/734390/26 "2015-10-12T16:34:21Z")
I think the trope of manliness is dying, and a lot of those themes around rugged individualism have either disappeared (especially on TV) or been transferred to military films (e.g. American Sniper or Lone Survivor). At this point I think we’re mostly down to subversion of western themes rather than embracing them, though The Revenant does seem like an exception. Speaking of The Revenant, this seems like the right place to list my new favorite MPAA Rating: R (for **strong frontier combat and violence** including gory images, a sexual assault, language and brief nudity). I suppose urban combat and violence still warrants an PG-13? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-wester-ever-make-a-coemback/734390/27 "2015-10-12T16:49:03Z")
> [@bump](#): > > True… but I always thought a big part of the attraction to Westerns for audiences was that it was a period where there was room for heroes. Ever since, the sort of locked-down nature of the world, between faster communications, better policing, and effective court systems has meant that there’s little room for the archetypical everyman to step up and become a hero or go on a quest or whatever. > > In the modern constrained world, there’s no going out into the West and becoming Jeremiah Johnson. There’s no being Wyatt Earp… he’d have been snowed under by a tangle of rules of engagement, concern for the Cowboys’ civil rights, and a mountain of Internal Affairs investigations, civilian lawsuits for hearing loss, etc… > . One of my favorite John Wayne movies was “The Cowboys”. Can you imagine today having 10-15 year old boys carrying guns and working a real cattle drive under an authoritarian boss? Indeed even in the movie one of the boys is killed. Heck today that would be on CNN. Which is odd because it happens all the time in 3rd world countries. ---
**Author:** ![Nefario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/59ef9b/32.png) [@Nefario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nefario)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-wester-ever-make-a-coemback/734390/28 "2015-10-12T18:01:01Z")
I still like _Gunsmoke_ because I don’t think of it as a western and I could see something similar - even a modern version - succeeding on TV. Many of the Gunsmoke shows are just good people stories, sometimes even without the star Matt Dillon. Too many current cop shows are about hard, abusive, rules-bending, damaged, “stars” that have no mercy for the people they’re supposed to be serving. Some combination of Matt Dillon & Andy Taylor could still be entertaining without being a comedy. Maybe set in a small town like _The Middle_? For “edginess” and “reality”, dare I say rounding up black gangstas from the big city? Maybe seeing that Mexican laborers get paid or get released from a smugglers truck? Maybe enforcing common sense when a mercury thermometer gets broken at the local high school? I’m tired of cowboy cops on TV and in real life and I think there’s opportunity here. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-wester-ever-make-a-coemback/734390/29 "2015-10-12T18:11:11Z")
There’s a TV and movie franchise which has been described as “Wagon Train to the stars.” I think it’s called “Star Trek.” 😃 More seriously, there’s a Canadian syndicated series called [The Pinkertons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pinkertons). It’s a drama based on case files of the Pinkerton Detective Agency dating back to the 1860s. It also airs in the U.S.A. and U.K. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-wester-ever-make-a-coemback/734390/30 "2015-10-12T18:31:00Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Ultimately, a western would be a CGI film, without the type of thing that people want to see in CGI films (people flying around and doing superhuman feats). > > … > > 1. Western gunfights would seem dull for an audience used to watching superheros destroying cities as they fought. I think you are viewing what makes movies attractive through a very narrow lens. Lot of people go movies with no superheroes or spaceships. Many people actively avoid them. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-wester-ever-make-a-coemback/734390/31 "2015-10-12T18:58:28Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > 1. Logistics. Sure the landscapes are still there, but there are contrails in the air. You’d have to build entire towns as sets. These weren’t issues in the past, when you could shoot on the backlot and reuse things for film after film, but audiences wouldn’t go for that. Last year, I read Jim Garner’s autobiography. In it, he talked about the experience of working on “Maverick”, which was, itself, a bit of a poke at the Western genre, at a time when TV (and movies) were filled with Westerns. He talked about a typical day of shooting on the “Western” backlot (Warner Brothers, IIRC). There would be four TV Westerns filming simultaneously, with the production crews and cameras all located together in a central “open space” on the back lot, and just pointed in different directions: Maverick would be filming in one direction, other shows in other directions, and they would alternate takes between the productions. He also talked about extensive re-use of stock footage and shots from older episodes (and films), and noted that, if you saw more than 3 actors in any particular shot, it was probably being re-used from another episode (probably from a different series entirely). While it’s hard to parse out supply vs. demand (i.e., did they make so many Westerns because they were so popular, or were Westerns popular because there were so many of them on), it was clear that the studios had built up the infrastructure that made Westerns very cost-effective to make. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-wester-ever-make-a-coemback/734390/32 "2015-10-12T19:02:14Z")
I don’t think that there will ever be a trend for commercial Western media. A truthful representation of the Old West is so detached from modern sensibilities that the only way to show it anymore is with grim and gritty anti-heroes, a la Deadwood. But simple action adventure movies? Nah, I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-wester-ever-make-a-coemback/734390/33 "2015-10-12T19:45:10Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > I doubt the Western will ever be back in its full glory. There will be occasional productions, but only one or two a year, if that. There are too many issues to overcome. > > 1. Logistics. Sure the landscapes are still there, but there are contrails in the air. You’d have to build entire towns as sets. These weren’t issues in the past, when you could shoot on the backlot and reuse things for film after film, but audiences wouldn’t go for that. Ultimately, a western would be a CGI film, without the type of thing that people want to see in CGI films (people flying around and doing superhuman feats). Along with the contrails there are power lines, modern roads, and even some recent “westerns” they had the cowboys on a gravel road with an obviosuly mowed areas on each side. The “real” west was mud and horse manure everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![stegon66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee59a6/32.png) [@stegon66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stegon66)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-wester-ever-make-a-coemback/734390/34 "2015-10-12T21:26:04Z")
There’s also the upcoming remake of The Magnificent Seven with Denzel Washington, Chris Pratt, Ethan Hawke and Vincent D’Onofrio. My nephew worked as an extra on the part of the film that was filmed in Louisiana, ended up getting a few lines, then got killed off. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-wester-ever-make-a-coemback/734390/35 "2015-10-13T17:45:11Z")
As many people have intimated, a lot of the elements that were appealing about Westerns have been repurposed in space opera. (And sometimes it comes full circle, with ST:TNG doing a holodeck episode set in the Old West). > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > While it’s hard to parse out supply vs. demand (i.e., did they make so many Westerns because they were so popular, or were Westerns popular because there were so many of them on), it was clear that the studios had built up the infrastructure that made Westerns very cost-effective to make. Twilight Zone certainly went Western again and again, and it’s hard not to think that cost played a role. ---
**Author:** ![MoonMoon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonmoon/32/2959_2.png) [@MoonMoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoonMoon)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-wester-ever-make-a-coemback/734390/36 "2015-10-13T17:50:55Z")
The typos in this thread title are making me absolutely twitchy, and you guys keep bumping it u… Oh…crap. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-wester-ever-make-a-coemback/734390/37 "2015-10-13T17:54:25Z")
The answer is yes. It is coming out next year: “The Comb Back of Wester” with Tommy Lee Jones. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-wester-ever-make-a-coemback/734390/38 "2015-10-14T02:32:48Z")
And then sometimes the Western is reinvented, as in _Star Wars_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-wester-ever-make-a-coemback/734390.md?page=1)