# Will the WHO survive the reckoning? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [March 30, 2020, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-who-survive-the-reckoning/850688 "2020-03-30T19:49:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-who-survive-the-reckoning/850688/41 "2020-04-02T09:04:55Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > I dont think you understand what you are posting. …I think it is you that doesn’t understand what you are posting. “Requiring the U.S. State Department to report to Congress on steps taken to strengthen Taiwan’s diplomatic relations” isn’t the same thing as recognizing Taiwan as a sovereign nation. The US recognizes Taiwan to the same extent the United Nations does. If you want to change that then pick up the phone and lobby your reps. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-who-survive-the-reckoning/850688/42 "2020-04-02T09:05:47Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > I dont think you understand what you are posting. I understand perfectly. You want to blame China for somehow deliberately unleashing Covid-19 upon the world, and using the UN to cover it up, because it serves your agenda to ignore the flagrant mistakes made by Donald Trump and it gives you a convenient excuse to bash non-white foreigners as dirty disease-ridden savages and paint “internationalism” as useless and corrupt. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-who-survive-the-reckoning/850688/43 "2020-04-02T09:10:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I understand perfectly. You want to blame China for somehow deliberately unleashing Covid-19 upon the world, and using the UN to cover it up, because it serves your agenda to ignore the flagrant mistakes made by Donald Trump and it gives you a convenient excuse to bash non-white foreigners as dirty disease-ridden savages and paint “internationalism” as useless and corrupt. Cite? I said that China intentionally and deliberately forces the WHO to ignore Taiwan (more of those ‘non-white foreigners’) dont you know and where have I ever said that I support Trump? However, compared to the CCP, Trump is a boyscout. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-who-survive-the-reckoning/850688/44 "2020-04-02T09:12:16Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > I said that China intentionally and deliberately forces the WHO to ignore Taiwan False. See post #36. > [@](#): > > where have I ever said that I support Trump? However, compared to the CCP, Trump is a boyscout. You answered your own question with the following sentence. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-who-survive-the-reckoning/850688/45 "2020-04-02T09:13:38Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I think it is you that doesn’t understand what you are posting. “Requiring the U.S. State Department to report to Congress on steps taken to strengthen Taiwan’s diplomatic relations” isn’t the same thing as recognizing Taiwan as a sovereign nation. The US recognizes Taiwan to the same extent the United Nations does. If you want to change that then pick up the phone and lobby your reps. The USA sells arms to Taiwan and for all intents and purposes guarantees their survival. Actions speak louder than flowery diplomatic declarations. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-who-survive-the-reckoning/850688/46 "2020-04-02T09:17:42Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > False. See post #36. > > You answered your own question with the following sentence. Read the cites. China. and no one else, forces the WHO to ignore Taiwan. Ask the Uighurs or the Tibetans or the slave laborers in China or the organ harvesters who is worse. That doesnt mean that I support Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-who-survive-the-reckoning/850688/47 "2020-04-02T09:18:50Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > The USA sells arms to Taiwan and for all intents and purposes guarantees their survival. Actions speak louder than flowery diplomatic declarations. Are the People’s Republic of China and the Republic of China both sovereign nations? If your answer is “yes”, then you and the US government are not in agreement. > [@madsircool](#): > > Read the cites. China. and no one else, forces the WHO to ignore Taiwan. The WHO is not “ignoring Taiwan”. See post 36. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-who-survive-the-reckoning/850688/48 "2020-04-02T09:20:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > False. See post #36. Let me help you out. [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-taiwan-who/taiwan-says-who-not-sharing-coronavirus-information-it-provides-pressing-complaints-idUSKBN21H1AU](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-taiwan-who/taiwan-says-who-not-sharing-coronavirus-information-it-provides-pressing-complaints-idUSKBN21H1AU) > [@](#): > > The World Health Organization (WHO) has not shared with member states information Taiwan has provided on the coronavirus including details on its cases and prevention methods, Taiwan’s Foreign Ministry said on Monday, ratcheting up its complaints. > > Taiwan’s lack of membership of the U.N. body, due to Chinese pressure which claims the island as its own with no right to the trappings of statehood, has infuriated the Taiwanese government during the outbreak of the virus. > > Taiwan’s government has said that keeping it out of the WHO during the outbreak amounts to playing politics with Taiwanese lives, even as the island has won plaudits for keeping its case toll so comparatively low thanks to early detection and control methods. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-who-survive-the-reckoning/850688/49 "2020-04-02T09:23:22Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > The USA sells arms to Taiwan and for all intents and purposes guarantees their survival. Actions speak louder than flowery diplomatic declarations. …actions certainly do speak loudly. The United States being one of the worlds leading arms dealers, even willing to sell to a nation it won’t even officially recognize, says a lot about the moral the integrity of the people in its administration. They will gladly take their money. But they won’t give them official recognition. And actions would speak louder than words. If the United States were to officially recognize Taiwan then the rest of the world would probably follow. So get on the phone and start lobbying your reps. > [@](#): > > Let me help you out. You are aware that one of your other cites contradicts this, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-who-survive-the-reckoning/850688/50 "2020-04-02T09:24:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Are the People’s Republic of China and the Republic of China both sovereign nations? > > If your answer is “yes”, then you and the US government are not in agreement. > > The WHO is not “ignoring Taiwan”. See post 36. If Taiwan isnt sovereign, then who is governing it? Why is the USA committed to its defense? Why is it willing to piss of China to defend it? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-who-survive-the-reckoning/850688/51 "2020-04-02T09:25:27Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Let me help you out. > > [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-taiwan-who/taiwan-says-who-not-sharing-coronavirus-information-it-provides-pressing-complaints-idUSKBN21H1AU](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-taiwan-who/taiwan-says-who-not-sharing-coronavirus-information-it-provides-pressing-complaints-idUSKBN21H1AU) [You really didn’t bother reading your own cites, did you?](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52088167) > [@](#): > > WHO membership is only given to countries that are members of the United Nations - which does not recognise Taiwan - or whose applications are approved by the World Health Assembly. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-who-survive-the-reckoning/850688/52 "2020-04-02T09:26:32Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …actions certainly do speak loudly. The United States being one of the worlds leading arms dealers, even willing to sell to a nation it won’t even officially recognize, says a lot about the moral the integrity of the people in its administration. They will gladly take their money. But they won’t give them official recognition. > > And actions would speak louder than words. If the United States were to officially recognize Taiwan then the rest of the world would probably follow. So get on the phone and start lobbying your reps. > > You are aware that one of your other cites contradicts this, don’t you? No they dont. But if you think so thats OK. I get that you dont like the USA. Thats is your right. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-who-survive-the-reckoning/850688/53 "2020-04-02T09:29:18Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > No they dont. But if you think so thats OK. I get that you dont like the USA. Thats is your right. And so we arrive at the old [“Why do you hate America so much?”](https://www.siue.edu/~ejoy/ThisModernWorld%20Cartoon.jpg) canard. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-who-survive-the-reckoning/850688/54 "2020-04-02T09:29:55Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [You really didn’t bother reading your own cites, did you?](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52088167) So a diplomatic agreement should take precedence over the health and lives of 23 million ‘non-white foreigners’? And im still waiting for the cite where I claimed that China unleashed the virus onto the world. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-who-survive-the-reckoning/850688/55 "2020-04-02T09:31:04Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > So a diplomatic agreement should take precedence over the health and lives of 23 million…? Who knew that diplomacy had so much to do with international cooperation? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-who-survive-the-reckoning/850688/56 "2020-04-02T09:31:06Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > No they dont. But if you think so thats OK. …not they don’t **what**? If I think so what’s **OK**? This doesn’t make any sense. > [@](#): > > I get that you dont like the USA. Thats is your right. This is incorrect. I love the USA, I love the American people, and the tragedy that is ongoing right now as the result of the failures of the current US administration breaks my heart. Please don’t insinuate that I don’t like the USA. That’s insulting, unfair and simply not the case. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-who-survive-the-reckoning/850688/57 "2020-04-02T09:31:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And so we arrive at the old [“Why do you hate America so much?”](https://www.siue.edu/~ejoy/ThisModernWorld%20Cartoon.jpg) canard. Its ok if you think that too. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-who-survive-the-reckoning/850688/58 "2020-04-02T09:35:12Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > And im still waiting for the cite where I claimed that China unleashed the virus onto the world. Well, there’s these; > [@Racism and "Wuhan virus" - only because Wuhan is a fairly well known large city?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/21): > > How does it help to blame a buffoon like Trump more than Xi and the CCP when it was policy for the Chinese government to hide and deny the truth? Maybe calling it the CCP virus would assign blame where it rightly belongs without tarring an entire nation? > [@Racism and "Wuhan virus" - only because Wuhan is a fairly well known large city?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/13): > > This ignores the responsibility of the Chinese government for lying about its origins and spread. It also ignores the fact that this same government lied its way to tens of millions of Chinese deaths during the Great Leap Forward. Maybe we should call it the CCP virus? > [@madsircool](#): > > Are you claiming that the Trump administration is responsible for this global pandemic? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-who-survive-the-reckoning/850688/59 "2020-04-02T09:35:26Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …not they don’t **what**? If I think so what’s **OK**? This doesn’t make any sense. > > This is incorrect. I love the USA, I love the American people, and the tragedy that is ongoing right now as the result of the failures of the current US administration breaks my heart. Please don’t insinuate that I don’t like the USA. That’s insulting, unfair and simply not the case. Are you claiming that the Trump administration is responsible for this global pandemic? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-who-survive-the-reckoning/850688/60 "2020-04-02T09:40:15Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Well, there’s these; Those are accurate statements backed up with cites had you been willing to read them. [https://www.axios.com/timeline-the-early-days-of-chinas-coronavirus-outbreak-and-cover-up-ee65211a-afb6-4641-97b8-353718a5faab.html](https://www.axios.com/timeline-the-early-days-of-chinas-coronavirus-outbreak-and-cover-up-ee65211a-afb6-4641-97b8-353718a5faab.html) > **[Can We Believe Any of China’s Coronavirus Numbers?](https://time.com/5813628/china-coronavirus-statistics-wuhan/)** > > On Wednesday, China changed how it counts COVID-19 cases for the eighth time. > **[Wuhan blogger hailed, loathed for descriptions of city's misery | The Asahi...](https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/13230864)** > > SHANGHAI--To embattled residents of Wuhan, blogger Fang Fang was nothing short of a hero. But to the authorities, she was a disruptive influence because of her honest descriptions of what is happening in the locked down Chinese city... > [@](#): > > But the content of the blog changed dramatically after Wuhan doctor Li Wenliang, 33, who had tried to raise awareness of the danger the virus posed in its initial phase but was reprimanded by police for “spreading false information,” died from infection on Feb. 7. > > Public sentiment turned against the Chinese authorities over its attempt to smear Li’s reputation, prompting state-owned media to suddenly begin a campaign to honor the physician as a hero. > > Fang Fang’s blog gradually started garnering attention with its calm presentation of facts in a thoughtful manner, which was in sharp contrast to reports in the national media and their steady diet of “cheer up Wuhan” stories. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-who-survive-the-reckoning/850688.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-the-who-survive-the-reckoning/850688.md?page=4)