# Will there be a be-liberal-or-else movement among Democrats?? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 6, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-be-a-be-liberal-or-else-movement-among-democrats/706507 "2014-12-06T16:54:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-be-a-be-liberal-or-else-movement-among-democrats/706507/41 "2015-02-13T19:26:23Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > “Or else” is pretty much the antithesis of the liberal mindset. Which is at once fortunate and unfortunate. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-be-a-be-liberal-or-else-movement-among-democrats/706507/42 "2015-02-13T20:36:51Z")
Yes. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-be-a-be-liberal-or-else-movement-among-democrats/706507/43 "2015-02-13T23:07:59Z")
Depends on your definitoion of liberal. On the social issues, pretty much ALL Democrats have come around to the “liberal or else” position. No Democrat is going to oppose abortion or gay marriage, for instance. But will a similar movement come about on the economic issues or the foreign policy issues? No, I don’t see that. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-be-a-be-liberal-or-else-movement-among-democrats/706507/44 "2015-02-14T01:52:09Z")
There are still pro-life Democrats, and pro-life sentiment is increasing, not decreasing: > **[The New Normal on Abortion: Americans More "Pro-Life"](https://news.gallup.com/poll/128036/New-Normal-Abortion-Americans-Pro-Life.aspx)** > > The percentage of Americans now calling themselves "pro-life" remains at least comparable to the percentage calling themselves "pro-choice," if not higher, as has been the case since 2009. This contrasts with the pattern from 1995 through 2008 when... Which means there will be more pro-life Democrats in the future catering to that. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-be-a-be-liberal-or-else-movement-among-democrats/706507/45 "2015-02-14T03:00:47Z")
I honestly think liberalism is so varied and factionalist that it prevents a cohesive Democratic movement. Getting dogmatic would be an awful idea as it would only isolate the subgroups, though a strong liberal coalition such as you’d find in Europe would be a political monster. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-be-a-be-liberal-or-else-movement-among-democrats/706507/46 "2015-02-14T03:23:56Z")
How strong the liberal coalition is has more to do with the state of the budget than anything else. It tends to be strongest when there’s plenty to go around. It fractures when the budget pie starts shrinking. Europe is a lot less lefty on economic issues than it used to be. Immigration politics also tends to create divisions, because it often puts native working class folk at odds with immigrants. We’ve also seen this in Europe. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-be-a-be-liberal-or-else-movement-among-democrats/706507/47 "2015-02-14T11:07:18Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > How strong the liberal coalition is has more to do with the state of the budget than anything else. It tends to be strongest when there’s plenty to go around. It fractures when the budget pie starts shrinking. Europe is a lot less lefty on economic issues than it used to be. > > Immigration politics also tends to create divisions, because it often puts native working class folk at odds with immigrants. We’ve also seen this in Europe. I don’t buy that the liberal coalition’s strength is based on the state of the budget. If you think this is so, how about some cites? It was awfully strong in '06, '08, and '12 – are you saying the budget was in great shape then? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-be-a-be-liberal-or-else-movement-among-democrats/706507/48 "2015-02-14T11:27:53Z")
It’s not the kind of thing that changes year to year and it’s not really noticeable yet. While new social programs are impossible due to the inability to raise taxes on anyone making over $400,000/yr, major cuts are still off in the future. But they will come, it’s simple math. You can’t raise taxes, you have to cut spending. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-be-a-be-liberal-or-else-movement-among-democrats/706507/49 "2015-02-14T12:42:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > How strong the liberal coalition is has more to do with the state of the budget than anything else. Which is different from Republicans, who will increase the deficit if it means they can give their constituency another tax cut. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-be-a-be-liberal-or-else-movement-among-democrats/706507/50 "2015-02-14T12:49:01Z")
Borrow and spend is pretty irresponsible. Can’t be done anymore though. Next recession will do us in if we try it again. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-be-a-be-liberal-or-else-movement-among-democrats/706507/51 "2015-02-14T12:51:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Borrow and spend is pretty irresponsible. Is it worse than borrow and tax cut? At least deficit spending creates jobs, which cannot be said for tax cuts. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-be-a-be-liberal-or-else-movement-among-democrats/706507/52 "2015-02-14T13:10:03Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Borrow and spend is pretty irresponsible. Depends on the circumstances. Sometimes it is simply necessary. N.B.: Keynes has never been discredited. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-be-a-be-liberal-or-else-movement-among-democrats/706507/53 "2015-02-14T13:12:40Z")
Yeah, recessions excepted, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-be-a-be-liberal-or-else-movement-among-democrats/706507/54 "2015-02-14T14:05:17Z")
Recessions happen, sure. But prior to the creation of the fed and a certain level of Keynesian stimulus they happened routinely - every 3-5 years - and were more severe that our usual recession (the 2008 mess excluded as an outlier). Blaming recessions themselves on any form of Keynesianism is simply to show a certain lack of knowledge of American economic history and behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-be-a-be-liberal-or-else-movement-among-democrats/706507/55 "2015-02-14T14:11:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Borrow and spend is pretty irresponsible. Can’t be done anymore though. Next recession will do us in if we try it again. About that next recession: pretty near inevitable, given the fact that the[Republicans keep trying to gut the Dodd-Frank bill](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/01/07/1356223/-Which-35-House-Democrats-Just-Joined-the-GOP-to-Try-to-Gut-Dodd-Frank#) (and mostly succeed). ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-be-a-be-liberal-or-else-movement-among-democrats/706507/56 "2015-02-14T14:21:01Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Recessions happen, sure. But prior to the creation of the fed and a certain level of Keynesian stimulus they happened routinely - every 3-5 years - and were more severe that our usual recession (the 2008 mess excluded as an outlier). > > Blaming recessions themselves on any form of Keynesianism is simply to show a certain lack of knowledge of American economic history and behavior. I’m not blaming recessions on anything in particular. Just noting that since we’re still running a $400 billion deficit, a recession may easily put us back into $1 trillion deficit territory and severely limit our options for fighting recession at the very least. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-be-a-be-liberal-or-else-movement-among-democrats/706507/57 "2015-02-14T14:50:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’m not blaming recessions on anything in particular. Just noting that since we’re still running a $400 billion deficit, a recession may easily put us back into $1 trillion deficit territory and severely limit our options for fighting recession at the very least. Which of course the Republicans will fight with their usual weapon- tax cuts for the wealthy. About time to dust of the old Laffer curve? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-be-a-be-liberal-or-else-movement-among-democrats/706507/58 "2015-02-14T16:45:47Z")
Depression? Tax cuts! Recession, tax cuts! Neuritis, neuralgia, that sluggish feeling? Oh, you better believe that calls for tax cuts! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-be-a-be-liberal-or-else-movement-among-democrats/706507.md?page=2)