# Will there ever be music as good as or better than music from the late 1960's and early 1970's? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 25, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-ever-be-music-as-good-as-or-better-than-music-from-the-late-1960s-and-early-1970s/718529 "2015-04-25T20:55:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-ever-be-music-as-good-as-or-better-than-music-from-the-late-1960s-and-early-1970s/718529/101 "2015-05-04T10:59:44Z")
Broadening the topic to simply “music was better when I was growing up”, the obvious answers are that “No; there’s still great music see X, Y, Z” and “There was a lot of crap made back then too: you’ve just forgotten that part and those songs don’t make it on to ‘Best of the 60s’”. _But_ I think that the different way that people consume music now has made a difference in the quality of the most well-known tracks. For me, anything that goes _near_ the top of the charts is just horrible: over-produced, soft, unoriginal. On all the music sites I have to dig to find something interesting; the tracks they promote don’t have any kind of hook and feel like album-filler to me. ISTM it wasn’t always this way. That in the 60s-80s, then the 90s to a lesser extent, the best stuff found it’s way to the top (and yeah, a lot of crap did too, but still). ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-ever-be-music-as-good-as-or-better-than-music-from-the-late-1960s-and-early-1970s/718529/102 "2015-05-04T11:06:15Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I’m only 2015 … only 25. Somehow my age turned into the year. I am a Time Lord. Or possibly Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-ever-be-music-as-good-as-or-better-than-music-from-the-late-1960s-and-early-1970s/718529/103 "2015-05-04T11:08:30Z")
The syndicated (NPR) radio program “Studio 360” featured an excellent and moving piece on Nirvana yesterday. A scholar (historian? musicologist? sociologist?) discussed the idea that rock’n’roll is essentially an art form for the Industrial Age (mainly in the U.S.), so when we started to transition toward a post-industrial society (which some, like economic geographer David Harvey, pinpoint to 1973), rock music was doomed as a compelling creative genre – but that Nirvana represented a final, unexpected burst (their bassist observed that rural Washington State’s dependence on killing trees for a living may have influenced this end-of-an-era, angst-ridden musical moment). ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-ever-be-music-as-good-as-or-better-than-music-from-the-late-1960s-and-early-1970s/718529/104 "2015-05-04T11:09:31Z")
You could have a moritorium on rock music, really - there’s just no need for any more to be made on a commercial basis. All the innovation and quality was in the 60s and 70s, and there’s now a metric shit-ton of fantastic stuff out there that would take several lifetimes to listen to. You’d miss out on the very occasional song that captures the spirit of the day, but rock’s a poor genre for this sort of artistic / social commentary nowadays, we wouldn’t be missing much. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-ever-be-music-as-good-as-or-better-than-music-from-the-late-1960s-and-early-1970s/718529/105 "2015-05-04T11:22:43Z")
I think it definitely peaked in the 60s and 70s, not to say that there won’t be an occasional new classic but I think any single year from say 1965-1975 beats any decade thereafter. There was a golden age of classical music centuries ago and the golden age of rock has passed a few decades ago. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-ever-be-music-as-good-as-or-better-than-music-from-the-late-1960s-and-early-1970s/718529/106 "2015-05-04T13:22:39Z")
Better music has already been created. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-ever-be-music-as-good-as-or-better-than-music-from-the-late-1960s-and-early-1970s/718529/107 "2015-05-04T13:24:41Z")
Rock is a classic music style that will be around forever, much like classical music. Indeed, I am extremely grateful to have witness this awesome historical event. The chance of any music being around as long as rock will, in its many, many genres, is slim to none. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-ever-be-music-as-good-as-or-better-than-music-from-the-late-1960s-and-early-1970s/718529/108 "2015-05-04T13:57:41Z")
tbh, growing up in the 70s surrounded by the London scene, I now find UK/US punk/rock pretty limiting. Radiohead pretty much got out of it and I fully understand why. Electrified stuff out of Africa now is very cool indeed; technology is available to most from their bedroom. A long way from being limited to some 8 track studio only a record contract can buy, and the ‘taste’ of the same. So, so much out there. It really helps having discerning musicians as radio hosts filtering some of it. BBC Introducing has been a really positive initiative: > **[BBC Music - BBC Music Introducing](https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p010j8y5)** > > Bringing together all of the BBC's supporters of unsigned music. Upload your music here. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-ever-be-music-as-good-as-or-better-than-music-from-the-late-1960s-and-early-1970s/718529/109 "2015-05-04T22:32:36Z")
At Fillmore East The Allman Brothers Band c Blue Joni Mitchell c Every Picture Tells a Story Rod Stewart c Fragile Yes c Hunky Dory David Bowie c Led Zeppelin IV Led Zeppelin c Muswell Hillbillies The Kinks c Sticky Fingers The Rolling Stones c There’s a Riot Goin’ On Sly & the Family Stone c What’s Going On Marvin Gaye c Who’s Next The Who c Here’s the list pruned to a dozen. I took out Lennon because it had How do you sleep on it and took off Beach Boys because of the objection. Can you name a dozen great artists, or works from your favorite Mozart year? I’m not picking and choosing. I like songs by those other people you mentioned. I cut the list to the most significant. The top 40 in 1971 was also exceptional compared with other years/eras. You can’t have an argument about the garbage released in different eras can you? I dig 1914 too. But the only music you mention is Stravinsky, Gershwin and the Ballets? You need more. I’m listening. This thread is about music. I love motown, but generally a motown album is filler and two hits, like it was for decades. The 1971 example says how LPs became an art form in the period in question. Like people writing and performing their own whole pieces, and having them widely heard, a whole industry doing it. It was a big change and it went away when the business model disappeared. (1971 non releasers: Neil Young; Stevie Wonder hadn’t started his great run yet) I lived through the 60s and 1971. I listen to music of all eras. There will be new great songs in the future. They will be influenced by rock but you don’t have to call them rock. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-ever-be-music-as-good-as-or-better-than-music-from-the-late-1960s-and-early-1970s/718529/110 "2015-05-05T01:05:07Z")
Is subsequent music as great as Mozart? Hard to say, maybe not. Stravinsky: Easier case but I’ll leave it. Was there an explosion of great work between 64 and 75 by dozens or even hundreds of great talents? Yes. Was it broad based and expanding limits on formal stylistic conventions, and inclusive and not parochial. yes, to the point where all the releases that constituted the “rock” market then could be seen now as a bunch of genres waiting to be exploited. Does American Music stand highly over the world. Yes of course. I’m American and I think that it has been the best with the English contr. No apologies. Can you name 40 classic compositions composed in any year in history, or a dozen contemporarys who were great in the same timeframe in the"longhair" era? I couldn’t. Anyway I support all music and it’s all taste and relative. But I only post to say that it seems there was a golden age. And I take that back about the business model. The business model was the result of that golden era of talent. When that impact lessened the business had hard times. It has never recovered, and won’t due to technology. I think the music of the time in question is doing fine though. People still seek it out. BTW College radio in Boston is still great. WFMU New Jersey is great. It’s gonna get harder to find the new stuff. The Magnetic Fields and Fleet Foxes are great. Charts have not had a function in music in decades though. No sense looking there. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-ever-be-music-as-good-as-or-better-than-music-from-the-late-1960s-and-early-1970s/718529/111 "2015-05-05T01:18:02Z")
> [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](#): > > If you were a 43 year-old in 1970 you probably wouldn’t have been thinking, “Gee, what a fantastic period of popular music we’re living in right now!” Instead, you might have been saying, “Now, the big bands of the '40s - we’ll never hear music as great as that again!” Allen Ginsberg and Timothy Leary, to name two, did think that way. ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-ever-be-music-as-good-as-or-better-than-music-from-the-late-1960s-and-early-1970s/718529/112 "2015-05-05T04:42:21Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Allen Ginsberg and Timothy Leary, to name two, did think that way. The two most stoned people of that entire generation. And both big fans of teenagers. OK, they did, but most did not. If your frame of reference growing up was Broadway/Jazz standards/Tin Pan Alley, the late '60s through early '70s was the absolute nadir of popular music. Upthread I mentioned how during the '40s to early '60s we had the best singers of the century making their best recordings. Here’s where those singers were in the late '60s: Frank Sinatra: out of touch, in decline, about to “retire.” The only memorable thing he recorded during 1968-1974 was “My Way.” No releases at all 1975-1979. Sarah Vaughan: no recording contract after '67 due to declining sales Ella Fitzgerald: the only exception, she made some good records in this period. None of them sold though Peggy Lee: had turned to making albums of soft rock tunes at this stage; “Is That All There Is?” was really all there was for her, commercially speaking Nat King Cole: dead Billie Holiday: dead Dinah Washington: dead And there was no one to replace that type of singer because the idiom of the moment was R&B/Rock. However, if we do narrow the question down to the rock/soul genre, I would agree that '65 to '75 was the peak of it all. It really does seem ludicrous to suggest otherwise. That list of 1971 albums is just an embarrassment of riches, and you’d get the same kind of results for all of that '65-'75 period. It was just the right time in the evolution of the idiom. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-ever-be-music-as-good-as-or-better-than-music-from-the-late-1960s-and-early-1970s/718529/113 "2015-05-05T04:51:12Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > This will be an unpopular pov but I’m not sure people who listen to US radio know much about modern music. Like network tv it serves a very specific demographic. But I’m only relating what many US musicians say when they come over here. US radio is generally very safe. Of course YMMV. > > Imo, the truly fantastic thing about music today is the depth and diversity, and it’s really difficult to explain how great that is. It’s not chart music, it’s not fashionable and it can come from literally anywhere - if you ever watched Jools Holland on Youtube you may have got a glimpse of the breadth of what’s out there. I’m in the US and I’m completely on board with this opinion. There’s so much good music being made today that I don’t have time for all of it. And one of the things I love about the music scene today, is that the kids of today are far more open minded music it than my generation ever was (and I include myself in that, my mind was as closed as my contemporaries). ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-ever-be-music-as-good-as-or-better-than-music-from-the-late-1960s-and-early-1970s/718529/114 "2015-05-05T06:21:52Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I think that 250 years from now people will still be listening to that music. People already aren’t listening to music from the late 60’s and early 70’s. In 250 years most people will have no idea whether a particular old song came from 1969 or 2009. It will all sound the same to them, the way that Debussy and Beethoven sound the same to average people now. Moreso, even. Out of curiosity, did you happen to graduate high school between 1968 and 1975? ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-ever-be-music-as-good-as-or-better-than-music-from-the-late-1960s-and-early-1970s/718529/115 "2015-05-05T14:46:33Z")
I’m curious why “late” 60’s was chosen as the starting point. There was plenty of good pop and rock from the mid [50’s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IjgZGhHrYY) to mid [60’s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8rd53WuojE), too. But, let’s face it, pop and rock aren’t that difficult of musical genres to become good at performing or composing, compared to some others (mainly Long-hair). To rise to the top, you don’t need to be born a prodigy and devote every waking hour of your life to music. But, you do need talent and you need to pay your dues to perfect your sound. There’s no doubt as much talent around today as there ever was, but I don’t think there’s as much willingness to pay one’s dues as there once was (e.g. playing small venues for years with bottles thrown at you till you and your band tighten and perfect your sound). The music industry values quick hit wonders and artists that look as good as they sound for video marketability—and there are plenty of contenders to fill the machine. I’m not saying there aren’t good bands around anymore; just not as many. And, perhaps the most talented aren’t the ones to be given a chance like they once were. If you have a talented but ugly bass player in your band, the studio is likely to replace him with a pretty boy or gal (they can more easily replace weak instrumentalists with studio musicians like [Carole Kaye and the Wrecking Crew](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UqNvMOdhGU) for the recordings). But, to make it big in long hair music composition or virtuosity, you’re got to start early. Mozart composed and performed before royalty at the age of 5. Lizst began his journey to peerless virtuosity at age 7. He wrote some of his music so [over-the-top](http://www.favorite-classical-composers.com/franz-liszt.html) complex purposely, so that he’d be the only pianist in the world able to play it (to this day few can play Liszt well). Talk about cornering the market and shutting out cover bands playing your songs! I’m partial to passionate Russian pianists. Aforementioned Kissin was a recognized musical prodigy at the age of 6. Lisitsa started playing at the age of 3. I think Liszt himself would be proud of her covers of his music. (Interesting clip discussing how her music was [banned in Canada](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6ZiFErxRMg) because of political tweets). Seeing her perform at a small local venue inspired my daughter to take piano lessons (that and the fact that her dad likes to brag about once being asked by Chubby Checker to play in his band). Valentina outputs most of her work on YouTube (it helps sell out her concerts) and she stays very in touch with her fans. I asked her if she would please record some Boogie Woogie music ([like Liberace did](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9nO9Ro_kd4)). She said she’d think about it. Watch Russian, Boris Berezovsky, put a piano through the ringer playing Liszt’s [Mazzepa](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93SToONMyk0). And, Claudio Arrau (not Russian) could read notes before letters and made his debut at age 5. Modern music prodigies include Stevie Wonder (Motown signed him at age 11) and Michael Jackson. The tragedy is that prodigies often lead tormented lives in order to feed the world their genius. Speaking of Boogie Woogie (aka eight-to-the-bar 12-bar blues), I believe that can still be considered modern music, despite pre-dating R&R by decades. I would love to see that genre bounce back to its former glory. And, it’s another example of an (African) American export that to this day still finds some popularity [around the world](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQw6zi3F-18). ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-ever-be-music-as-good-as-or-better-than-music-from-the-late-1960s-and-early-1970s/718529/116 "2015-05-05T15:49:10Z")
I said “Yes” but with the caveat that it already has happened. It may not be all that popular to say, but I think that the last 10 years have been absolutely brilliant. I mean if you are just a rock fan (and a classic rock fan at that), maybe I can see why you’d prefer the 60s, 70s stuff. But there is so much more - I also think the increased genre blending has created some amazing stuff. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-ever-be-music-as-good-as-or-better-than-music-from-the-late-1960s-and-early-1970s/718529/117 "2015-05-05T16:05:00Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > At Fillmore East The Allman Brothers Band c > Blue Joni Mitchell c > Every Picture Tells a Story Rod Stewart c > Fragile Yes c > Hunky Dory David Bowie c > Led Zeppelin IV Led Zeppelin c > Muswell Hillbillies The Kinks c > Sticky Fingers The Rolling Stones c > There’s a Riot Goin’ On Sly & the Family Stone c > What’s Going On Marvin Gaye c > Who’s Next The Who c > > The top 40 in 1971 was also exceptional compared with other years/eras. You can’t have an argument about the garbage released in different eras can you? 5 1/2 of those bands come from the same town (my town actually but that’s beside the point). Have you ever wondered what the purpose of a chart of music was, and who it suits: why do we want to know if number 6 sold more than number 8? Who is influenced by knowing that, what does it tell us? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-ever-be-music-as-good-as-or-better-than-music-from-the-late-1960s-and-early-1970s/718529/118 "2015-05-05T16:13:57Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I mean if you are just a rock fan (and a classic rock fan at that), maybe I can see why you’d prefer the 60s, 70s stuff. Yes, but the more one tries to make the case for 1965-1975, the thinner you have to slice what you’re making the case\* for\*. Remember, the OP was > [@](#): > > Will there ever be music as good as or better than music from the late 1960’s and early 1970’s? I do not think there ever will be. I think the music of that era is something unobtainable and impossible to reproduce or surpass. I think that 250 years from now people will still be listening to that music. No specific genre, no subcategories, no qualifications. **The best music in history, period.** ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-ever-be-music-as-good-as-or-better-than-music-from-the-late-1960s-and-early-1970s/718529/119 "2015-05-05T16:16:33Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Having not been born when either was at their peak, and having listened to plenty of stuff by both, I’d say that’s pretty indisputable. Neither are among my absolute favourites to listen to (I tend towards darker or heavier stuff) but both were among the absolute best at their chosen art form, made great use of the evolving technology of their time, and massively influenced both contemporary and later artists, whilst acknowledging their own influences in their works. Just as Mozart went from his juvenile Haydn imitations to mould-breaking, unprecedented symphonies the Beach Boys went from their early surf music to the mould breaking, unprecedented Pet Sounds and Good Vibrations. I consider it pure snobbery to say one art form is necessarily greater than the other. So, you go on to make a case for their equivalence, which is entertaining–but your claim isn’t merely that comparing them is defensible, but **indisputable** , as though there are no reasonable grounds on which anyone could possibly think Mozart was a better musician than the Beach Boys. It’s that certainty that I find :dubious:. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-ever-be-music-as-good-as-or-better-than-music-from-the-late-1960s-and-early-1970s/718529/120 "2015-05-05T16:40:52Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > So, you go on to make a case for their equivalence, which is entertaining–but your claim isn’t merely that comparing them is defensible, but **indisputable** , as though there are no reasonable grounds on which anyone could possibly think Mozart was a better musician than the Beach Boys. > > It’s that certainty that I find :dubious:. You could argue that, although without any recordings of him it’s tricky to know how good he was… You might have more success arguing he was a better composer than Brian Wilson, but it’s inarguable that they were both among the best and most influential at their chosen art form. What do you think are the reasons to say that Mozart was better? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-ever-be-music-as-good-as-or-better-than-music-from-the-late-1960s-and-early-1970s/718529.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-there-ever-be-music-as-good-as-or-better-than-music-from-the-late-1960s-and-early-1970s/718529.md?page=7)