# Will these hearings "demonize" Muslims in America?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [March 6, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688 "2011-03-06T17:40:35Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 5

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**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\
**Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/81 "2011-03-06T22:54:00Z")

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> [@Skip](#):
>
> Do you consider the anti-abortion activists who have murdered at least 8 people and attempted to murder another 17 since 1977 Christians? The majority of people who carried out these attacks (if not all of them) I’m pretty sure would consider themselves such.

They are definitely Christians, and they are definitely terrorists. But they don’t operate internationally, they don’t have governments backing them, they certainly don’t exert any influence on global politics. And 8 murders and 17 attempted murders since 1977 isn’t comparable to what Muslim terror groups have accomplished. It doesn’t make them any less evil, but we’re talking about drastically different scales of influence and activity here.

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**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\
**Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/82 "2011-03-06T22:54:22Z")

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> [@Valteron](#):
>
> May I give you a real example of the kind of thing that genuinely worries me about some Muslims in the west?  
> … but this is exactly the kind of Muslim-bashing that **Valteron** has been instructed to stop. If you post any more of this, **Valteron** , the thread will be locked and you’ll be warned for ignoring staff instructions. I’d close this right now but I am trying to give the benefit of the doubt to the posters who want to treat this as a serious discussion.

Are you saying that my true story about the Imam in Canada who refused to answer what he would do if he knew of someone who was about to murder Salman Rushdie is Muslim-bashing and is not relevant to the present discussion?

I am giving you a genuine example of someone living in a democratic country who would not affirm that his civic duty to the laws of the country would outweigh his religious laws that allow for killing of authors. Surely that has something to do with the subject of the proposed hearings into the presence or absence or radicalism in Muslim populations in a democracy, does it not?

Am I not allowed to explain why this man, who lives a few kilometres away from me, frightens me when he puts Islamic law ahead of the law of my country?

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**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\
**Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/83 "2011-03-06T22:56:42Z")

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> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#):
>
> You said you live in Canada, did you not? You are aware that Canada is not part of the US?

When did I ever say I lived in Canada?

I’ve never even visited Canada.

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**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\
**Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/84 "2011-03-06T22:57:12Z")

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> [@Argent\_Towers](#):
>
> They are definitely Christians, and they are definitely terrorists. But they don’t operate internationally, they don’t have governments backing them, they certainly don’t exert any influence on global politics. And 8 murders and 17 attempted murders since 1977 isn’t comparable to what Muslim terror groups have accomplished. It doesn’t make them any less evil, but we’re talking about drastically different scales of influence and activity here.

We’re only talking about domestic crimes. It’s irrelvant what happens in other countries (although we did have a Christian genocide of Muslims in Eastern Europe not too long ago).

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**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\
**Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/85 "2011-03-06T22:57:35Z")

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> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#):
>
> You said you live in Canada, did you not? You are aware that Canada is not part of the US?

I am the one who lives in Canada. You are confusing me with Ibn Warraq. Which is funny, when you think about it.

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**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\
**Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/86 "2011-03-06T22:58:40Z")

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> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#):
>
> When did I ever say I lived in Canada?
> 
> I’ve never even visited Canada.

I mixed you up with **Valteron**. Never mind.

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**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\
**Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/87 "2011-03-06T23:00:31Z")

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> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#):
>
> I mixed you up with **Valteron**. Never mind.

Did you manage to read Post 41 yet? Comments?

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**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\
**Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/88 "2011-03-06T23:01:45Z")

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> [@Valteron](#):
>
> Now let’s get down to business. According to [this article](http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/7459414.html) and [this article](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41934893/ns/us_news-life/) there is supposed to be a demo in New York today by a coalition of over 100 interfaith, nonprofit and governmental organizations against a planned congressional hearing on Muslims’ role in homegrown terrorism.
> 
> The coalition says Thursday’s hearing will send the wrong message to U.S. Muslims by “demonizing” them.
> 
> What is there to hide? If the hearings show no evidence of a higher incidence or radicalization and no higher propensity to terrorism among Muslims in America than among Mormons, Seventh-Day Adventists or Presbyterians, then I should think America’s Muslims would welcome such a conclusion. If it is revealed that radicfalization is making headway in the Islamic community in America, I would think the vast majority of peaceful Muslims we are constantly told about would want to know so they can do something.

This is old news and you have, of course, either ignored or failed to do sufficient research to discover the stated intent of Representative Peter King’s hearing, including the specific distortions he intends to employ in his demagoguery.

The hearings are not intended to discover whether there is any support for terrorists in the U.S., they are intended to deliberately make the false claim that the Muslim community in the U.S. has failed do enough to fight terrorists. King has already assembled a list of people to testify–all of whom are Islam bashers (and none of whom are genuine spokespersons of either American Muslims or Law Enforcement)–whom he expects will testify that Muslims in the U.S. are failing to do their part to notify Law Enforcement of terrorist plots. The hearings will serve no purpose except to demonize American Muslims as traitors.

The reality is that people have already investigated the charges and found them to be seriously in error. King, however, has been stonewalling efforts by other members of the comittee to permit a wider selection of witnesses. He is stacking the deck to present the false picture that he already wants to portray.

(I am a bit surprised that it took you a month to submit this thread–unless you were hoping that the news would be sufficiently stale that no one would remember the details of King’s plotting.)

[http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/08/us/politics/08muslim.html?\_r=3](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/08/us/politics/08muslim.html?_r=3)

The completed study was carried out by Charles Kurzman of the University of North Carolina. (Among the facts that he discovered were that about half of the Muslim terror plots identified in the U.S. were discovered when Muslim families and neighbors reported the behavior of the plotters. He also noted that various police agencies have sent undercover _agents provocateur_ into the Muslim community to see if they could lure any plotters into the open to join them. While none of them succeeded in actually discovering any secret plotters, several of them were reported to the authorities by members of the Musliom communities as exhibiting radical behavior.)

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**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\
**Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/89 "2011-03-06T23:06:10Z")

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Clearly we need to have hearings to investigate the Canadian menace among us.

Back on topic: I see no benefit or constructive purpose to holding these hearings. Isn’t there something better Congress ought to be doing with its time?

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**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\
**Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/90 "2011-03-06T23:07:11Z")

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> [@Valteron](#):
>
> Are you saying that my true story about the Imam in Canada who refused to answer what he would do if he knew of someone who was about to murder Salman Rushdie is Muslim-bashing and is not relevant to the present discussion?

That’s exactly what I’m saying. And I’m not **tomndebb**.

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**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\
**Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/91 "2011-03-06T23:07:59Z")

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> [@Marley23](#):
>
> That’s exactly what I’m saying. And I’m not **tomndebb**.

Why?

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**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\
**Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/92 "2011-03-06T23:10:37Z")

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At a guess: because an anecdotal story about one guy in Canada has nothing to do with Congressional hearings in the US?

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**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\
**Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/93 "2011-03-06T23:11:01Z")

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But it goes to the larger question of Muslims living in a Western culture. and the threat they represent. Seems quite related.

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**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\
**Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/94 "2011-03-06T23:13:38Z")

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> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#):
>
> I mixed you up with **Valteron**. Never mind.

How could you possibly mix the two of us up?

I’m Muslim and he’s made it abundantly clear he’s not and he even accused me of practicing “Taqqiya”.

Do you actually read other people posts?

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**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\
**Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/95 "2011-03-06T23:15:59Z")

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> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#):
>
> Are you that much of a moron that you’d think such a poor reasoning as:

Do not call other posters names, even as a “question.”

Knock it off.

[/Moderating]

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**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\
**Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/96 "2011-03-06T23:17:07Z")

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> [@magellan01](#):
>
> But it goes to the larger question of Muslims living in a Western culture. and the threat they represent. Seems quite related.

Once again: What threat do Muslims represent in the US? Is it larger or smaller than threats emanating from the Christian community in the US? If it’s smaller why are there no Congressional investigations into acts of Christian terrorism in the US?

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**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\
**Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/97 "2011-03-06T23:17:55Z")

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> [@Valteron](#):
>
> So the argument that a Congressman holds a very civilized series of hearings on the dangers of radicalization and calls on peace-loving Muslims to cooperate with him is a major weapon in their arsenal of arguments against America? For that matter is the average Muslim in Africa and Asia even likely to be aware that such hearings were ever held?

Peter King is among the least likely to ever issue a civilized statement, forget having a civilized hearing. Just because you and he see the Muslim threat in the same way doesn’t mean the hearings arent anything more than a McCarthyist soapbox.

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**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\
**Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/98 "2011-03-06T23:20:20Z")

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> [@magellan01](#):
>
> But it goes to the larger question of Muslims living in a Western culture. and the threat they represent. Seems quite related.

If the congressional hearings were intended to discover actual facts, there is a remote chance that that might be true, (although it would still be more appropriate for the FBI and related agencies than congresscritters showboating), but as one more tired attempt to simply use congressional power to harrass innocent people, the “larger question” is not even part of the discussion.

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**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\
**Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/99 "2011-03-06T23:33:42Z")

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> [@Valteron](#):
>
> Holding hearings to see if there is a security risk inherent in homegrown terrorists in which nobody is charged or acccused (unless there is actual evidence of criminal activity uncovered, I guess) constitutes “persecution and mistreatment”?
> 
> So what about the bombing of Christian churches (Iraq, Pakistan) or the assasination of (Christian) Pakistani Minister for Minorities Shahbaz Bhatti, who had called for changes in the country’s controversial blasphemy law, and who was killed in a gun attack in Islamabad on March 2? What about people like Asia Bibi, a Christian mother of five who in November 2010 was condemned to death by a Punjab court for making blasphemous remarks against the Prophet Mohammed and now apperars likely to be executed? Or the vicious and little-reported persecution of members of the Bahai faith in Iran? My point is NOT that the west has to retaliate by matching these outrages. NEVER, NEVER should we destroy our precious freedoms and rights.
> 
> My point is that in a climate of fanatical Islamism that pervades much of the Islamic world, it takes a self-loathing practitioner of “politically correct guilt” to qualify simple hearings as “persecution and mistreatment”. I doubt if these hearings will even be noticed by most people in the Muslim world.
> 
> Do you think Islamic radicals hate Americans because you hold hearings on security issues that logically focus on Muslims in America? They hate you because you are not Muslims and have not submitted to Islam, which they believe must eventually dominate the entire world.

Hahahaha “a self-loathing practioner of politically correct guilt?” Hey I love America. And I hate radical Islam. I find it antithetical to the ideals that make America great to imply that Muslim Americans should have to prove that they feel the same way. I also fail to see why we should treat Muslims badly in America because Christians are treated badly in Muslim countries. I’m just not that afraid of radical Islam. 🙂 \<– see that smiley face? That’s Mohammed. I bet not a single Jihad is declared on the straightdope. Statistically, I’m far more likely to be murdered by a non-Muslim American than by any sort of of Muslim. Hell, statistically, it’s more likely that I’d kill myself than that I’d be murdered by any sort of Muslim.

Despite the massive efforts that apparently exist to force everyone in the world to convert to Islam, Muslims seem to have some problems even keeping their own countries Muslim. Egypt is at least 10 percent Christian. Pakistan is 1.6 percent Christian. The United States is only 0.8 percent Muslim. Even Iran has thousands Christians, Zoroastrians, Bahais, and Jews. Now I’m not saying these people aren’t persecuted, I’m just saying that apparently radical Islam isn’t all that effective at destroying the infidels and turning the United States into the new caliphate.

Look Valteron, if you have any ideas on how to help stop the persecution of religious minorities or women in the Islamic world I’d love to read them. But it seems to me like you just want to say that radical Muslims suck, and that Muslims in America should have to pay a price for that.

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**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\
**Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/100 "2011-03-06T23:40:03Z")

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> [@SecretaryofEvil](#):
>
> 🙂 \<– see that smiley face? That’s Mohammed.

Don’t be ridiculous.

Mohammed was taller.

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