# Will these hearings "demonize" Muslims in America? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 6, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688 "2011-03-06T17:40:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/121 "2011-03-07T01:39:43Z")
I think Rep. King is on to something, and I’m surprised he’s limiting his efforts to a short-lived series of hearings. If the danger is as great as he seems to think it is, a much more broad and longer-term initiative is needed. Maybe a committee in the House of Representatives, focussing on un-American activities. Yeah, that might be it. I wonder why no one has ever considered something like that before. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/122 "2011-03-07T01:46:51Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > [Naveed Haq](http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-08-10-seattle_x.htm): > > [Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad](http://www.stuttgartdailyleader.com/newsnow/x1270137247/Letters-detail-Tennessees-Abdulhakim-Mujahid-Muhammad-terrorist-plans) > > [Hasan Akbar:](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7210-2005Apr21.html) Haq’s wiki page says he grew up Muslim but converted to Christianity before the shooting, so that one goes in the Christian column. The other two were attacks on military targets, so were not technically terrorist acts. I accept that there are arguably a very few homegrown Muslim nutballs. Not enough to start interrogating all Muslims, though. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/123 "2011-03-07T01:56:35Z")
It seems from that Wikipedia article that Haq vacillated between Islam and Christianity. According to it, he was more on the Muslim side at the time of the attack. It said that he attended an Islamic center in Tri-Cities _after_ supposedly becoming Christian. Oh, and then there’s the _small_ matter of this: > [@](#): > > At the time of the shooting, it was reported by witnesses that Haq stated, “I am a Muslim American, angry at Israel.” I don’t know how you can brusquely brush aside my contention that McVeigh was not Christian, yet so conclusively state that Haq _was_ Christian. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/124 "2011-03-07T01:59:05Z")
That was his last religion of record. He certainly wasn’t a very committed Muslim, in any case. Most radical Muslims don’t get baptized as Christians. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/125 "2011-03-07T02:02:00Z")
Lots of people get baptized into various religions during confused periods of self-searching. It doesn’t always stick with them. In any case, Haq never presented himself as _acting in the name of_ Christianity, which I would think would be the real key issue here. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/126 "2011-03-07T02:20:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That was his last religion of record. He certainly wasn’t a very committed Muslim, in any case. Most radical Muslims don’t get baptized as Christians. People who find themselves drawn into radical Islamist movements, or radical movements in general, tend to the disaffected, and it isn’t unusual for them to jump between radical movements before finally settling down to one. So I don’t think it’s surprising for him to become a fundamentalist Christian first and then a radical Muslim. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/127 "2011-03-07T02:38:55Z")
The religion Haq or anyone else followed at the time of various attacks is pretty much off topic for this thread. Go argue it somewhere else. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/128 "2011-03-07T02:59:17Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > The religion Haq or anyone else followed at the time of various attacks is pretty much off topic for this thread. > > Go argue it somewhere else. > > [/Moderating] Tom, this began because Dio challenged me to list attacks by Muslim Americans because he assumed I couldn’t name any. After I rattled several off the top of my head, he then claimed that he only meant Muslim Americans who were born in the US. Now, leaving aside his rather offensive suggestion that Muslim Americans like myself who were born outside the US are somehow less American than those born in the US, if we’re being asked to produce the names of Muslim Americans who who’ve committed terrorist attacks, how is it not relevant what religion he was? For the record, the wiki page Dio quotes makes it clear that Haq considered himself a Muslim, and while it’s not mentioned on the page, Haq regularly meets with an Imam, requested a copy of the Quran while in prison, and prays five times every day. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/129 "2011-03-07T03:03:54Z")
Anyway, as I already mentioned, I think the hearings are a horrible idea and I think Muslim Americans pose very little potential threat as terrorists, as for whatever it’s worth, do Christian and Jewish Americans. However, that doesn’t mean that people who claim that Americans who are practicing Christians are more likely to engage in terrorist activity than Americans who are practicing Muslims is being willfully blind. You might as well say Americans who are Christians are just as likely to be Zionists as Americans who are Jews. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/130 "2011-03-07T03:07:24Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Tom, this began because Dio challenged me to list attacks by Muslim Americans because he assumed I couldn’t name any. I read the thread. I know how the discussion started. I am simply noting that it is off topic and indicating that it will not continue in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/131 "2011-03-07T03:08:32Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Now, I do not expect that Representative Keith Ellison would be gunned down tomorrow morning if he changed religions, but then again, if he ever did renounce Islam, I would advise him to think about protection of the kind needed by famous apostates like Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Statistically speaking, there must be tens of millions (not to say hundreds of millions) of Muslims who believe he should be killed if he ever renounces Islam. And it just takes one person with a gun to do it. > > Of course the majority of Muslims are not terrorists. I am sure that if Keith Ellison ever renounced Islam and had someone shooting at him, he would take great comfort in that fact. I had dinner with Keith (and his young daughter) yesterday. Neither of them seemed to be at all worried about any such danger. His main comment on these hearings were that they will be a waste of taxpayer money. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/132 "2011-03-07T03:09:08Z")
They probably are. Israel gets a tremendous amount of support from American Christians. And statistically speaking, there is far more homegrown Christian violence in the US than Muslim. That’s not to say there’s a _lot_ of Christian violence. There’s very little, but it’s still more than violence by Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/133 "2011-03-07T03:09:15Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > I am not “calling” for hearings now Wow, this thread has been JAQed off in record time. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/134 "2011-03-07T03:11:26Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I read the thread. I know how the discussion started. I am simply noting that it is off topic and indicating that it will not continue in this thread. Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/135 "2011-03-07T03:12:15Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You might as well say Americans who are Christians are just as likely to be Zionists as Americans who are Jews. Depending on which denomination you are discussing, (and how you define Zionism), that can literally be true. 😛 Regardless, the hearings have already been stacked for the purpose of demonizing U.S. Muslims and there is no real point to them beyond that. The protestors cited in the OP recognize the threat that King presents to the liberty and safety of U.S. Muslims and they are protesting that. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/136 "2011-03-07T03:28:31Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They probably are. Israel gets a tremendous amount of support from American Christians. You misunderstood what I said. I didn’t say there were more Christian Zionists than Jewish Zionists. What I said was. > [@](#): > > You might as well say Americans who are Christians **are just as likely** to be Zionists as Americans who are Jews Now most American Jews consider themselves Zionists whereas most American gentiles probably don’t even know what Zionism is. That said, it’s possible, though unlikely, that Christians who identify themselves as Zionists outnumber Jews who identify themselves as Zionists simply because there are vastly more Christians in America than Jews. Similarly it’s utterly silly to deny that Muslim Americans are far more likely to engage in terrorism than Christian Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/137 "2011-03-07T03:33:59Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Depending on which denomination you are discussing, (and how you define Zionism), that can literally be true. 😛 It’s a bit off topic but generalize support for Israel is not the same as being a Zionist. Like I said earlier, I seriously doubt most Americans even know what a Zionist is. I guarantee if I went into the sports bar on the corner and asked most people “What do you think of Zionism” they would give me confused looks and simply shrug. Anyway, apologies for the slight derail. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/138 "2011-03-07T03:39:26Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Similarly it’s utterly silly to deny that Muslim Americans are far more likely to engage in terrorism than Christian Americans. Define terrorism. Is beating or killing homosexuals because “God hates gays” terrorism? What about the attacks by right wingers all over the country over the health care “reform” vote? Are “Shock and Awe” attacks & torture by American Christian fanatics on a Muslim populace terrorism, or is that just an example of “terrorist is what the big army calls the little army”? Christians have a lot more power here than Muslims, and can spread terror and oppression without the need for improvised weapons and guerrilla tactics; they can send missiles and armies instead. A great deal of terrorism by the right wing - which usually also means fanatic Christian - doesn’t get the label “terrorism” no matter how well it fits. I’ve seldom heard people admit that what the KKK has done throughout the years qualifies as terrorism, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/139 "2011-03-07T03:43:40Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You misunderstood what I said. No I didn’t. I think that American Christians may very well be just as likely to support Israel as American Jews. > [@](#): > > Now most American Jews consider themselves Zionists whereas most American gentiles probably don’t even know what Zionism is. You’re totally wrong about that second part. > [@](#): > > That said, it’s possible, though unlikely, that Christians who identify themselves as Zionists outnumber Jews who identify themselves as Zionists simply because there are vastly more Christians in America than Jews. That isn’t what I was saying. I was saying that I don’t think the average American Christian is any less likely to support Israel than the average American Jew. > [@](#): > > Similarly it’s utterly silly to deny that Muslim Americans are far more likely to engage in terrorism than Christian Americans. No it isn’t. The statistics speak for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2011, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688/140 "2011-03-07T03:48:25Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > It’s a bit off topic but generalize support for Israel is not the same as being a Zionist. > Like I said earlier, I seriously doubt most Americans even know what a Zionist is. > > I guarantee if I went into the sports bar on the corner and asked most people “What do you think of Zionism” they would give me confused looks and simply shrug. > > Anyway, apologies for the slight derail. Zionism is support for a Jewish state in Israel. I don’t think that Christian Americans are any less likely to support that than American Jews. The word “zionism” may not necessarily be as well known by them (though I think you are grossly understimating the awareness), but they would still support it if it was described to them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-these-hearings-demonize-muslims-in-america/573688.md?page=8)