# Will they invoke the 25th Amendment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 16, 2020, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-they-invoke-the-25th-amendment/925658 "2020-11-16T02:50:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-they-invoke-the-25th-amendment/925658/61 "2020-11-17T14:29:30Z")
This is yet another undeniable example of how the Republican Right values power far above the national welfare. Amazingly, if this dereliction of duty results in a real problem for Biden, they will turn around and blame him and the democratic party for it. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-they-invoke-the-25th-amendment/925658/62 "2020-11-17T15:43:18Z")
Exactly right. I am of the opinion that the Republican politicians actually WANT harm to the country because of this, because they can spin it to blame Biden. There is no way that they will do anything to mitigate the damage that Trump will cause between now and January 20th. For them, that is a positive, not a negative. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-they-invoke-the-25th-amendment/925658/63 "2020-11-17T15:59:25Z")
I looked through the thread and I didn’t see this answered: for what reason can the 25th Amendment be invoked? > Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President. Giving briefings to the President-elect is not a duty of the President which is a discussion that we had with Trump’s tax returns. “He has to show his tax returns!” “No he doesn’t HAVE to. It’s not a law.” “Yeah but he should. It’s tradition.” “That’s not the same thing as legally has to.” Secondly, would you argue that these briefings are a power or a duty? If a duty, what law require Trump to include Biden on a briefing? If a power, then is Trump unable or just unwilling to use that power. You can’t force a President to use a power, can you? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-they-invoke-the-25th-amendment/925658/64 "2020-11-17T16:58:02Z")
You accused the President of criminal acts. As you (should) know, those require proof beyond a reasonable doubt, in court. Not some random rant on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-they-invoke-the-25th-amendment/925658/65 "2020-11-17T17:18:25Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > You accused the President of criminal acts. As you (should) know, those require proof beyond a reasonable doubt, in court. This is not a court of law, and you are not an opposing counsel, let alone a presiding judge. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-they-invoke-the-25th-amendment/925658/66 "2020-11-17T18:19:36Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Giving briefings to the President-elect is not a duty of the President There is, in fact, a [Presidential Transition Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_transition#Presidential_Transition_Act) which requires the President to form a Transition Coordinating Council and each agency to apoint a Transition Director. And those people are required to communicate various stuff to the incoming Administration. That stuff includes security briefings. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-they-invoke-the-25th-amendment/925658/67 "2020-11-17T18:35:43Z")
> [@Temporary\_Name](#): > > I believe I have said all I have to say here. _ **Moderating** _ Don’t argue moderation in-thread. That’s what ATMB is for. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-they-invoke-the-25th-amendment/925658/68 "2020-11-17T18:37:02Z")
It doesn’t matter whether something is a power or a duty. The phrase “unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office” is vague enough that it can mean anything that the VP and Cabinet want it to mean. If the President said or did something very unusual, the VP and Cabinet might consider it to have demonstrated that the President is unable to be President. That’s all you really need: the opinion of the VP, and the opinion of most Cabinet members. It’s similar to the rule about impeachment. The Constitution says “_The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors._” and when someone asks “What does ‘High Crimes and Misdemeanors’ mean?” the answer is “Anything Congress wants it to mean.” ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-they-invoke-the-25th-amendment/925658/69 "2020-11-17T18:49:09Z")
(continuing from my post above) The catch, of course, is that the VP and Cabinet, practically by definition, are very loyal to the President, and therefore very unlikely to want to oust him. This is surely by design: If it were any other group, we’d have coups all the time. But by pinning it to the VP and (majority of) the cabinet, this ability would be used only in the most dire cases. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-they-invoke-the-25th-amendment/925658/70 "2020-11-17T18:50:25Z")
Right. But this board is (allegedly) dedicated to fighting ignorance. Rants do not serve said purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-they-invoke-the-25th-amendment/925658/71 "2020-11-17T18:54:10Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Rants do not serve said purpose. Neither does re-asking questions that have been discussed _ad nauseam_. It is a little late in the game to start the entire conversation over, don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![Dandan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@Dandan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dandan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-they-invoke-the-25th-amendment/925658/72 "2020-11-17T19:11:14Z")
To quote James Dean, “Waddya got?” ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-they-invoke-the-25th-amendment/925658/73 "2020-11-17T20:24:20Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > There is, in fact, a [Presidential Transition Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_transition#Presidential_Transition_Act) which requires the President to form a Transition Coordinating Council and each agency to apoint a Transition Director. And those people are required to communicate various stuff to the incoming Administration. That stuff includes security briefings. Then I must be missing something. I knew about the departmental transition (anyone ever find those "W"s the Clinton staff took off the keyboards?). I thought this was about Biden staffers not being allowed in the briefings given to Trump. I don’t think that falls under the Transition Act ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-they-invoke-the-25th-amendment/925658/74 "2020-11-17T21:25:09Z")
Just because something has been discussed _ad nauseum_, on a liberal website, doesn’t mean a crime has been committed. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-they-invoke-the-25th-amendment/925658/75 "2020-11-17T21:43:09Z")
> [@Dandan](#): > > To quote James Dean, “Waddya got?” Marlon Brando. That is all. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Iyq4HZZ4H50/hqdefault.jpg "The Wild One, 1953, What have you got?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyq4HZZ4H50) ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-they-invoke-the-25th-amendment/925658/76 "2020-11-17T22:14:11Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I thought this was about Biden staffers not being allowed in the briefings given to Trump. I don’t think that falls under the Transition Act If it is about that, I missed something in this thread. Anyway, the President-elect is supposed to get a security briefing, the same one the President gets, I believe. That doesn’t mean he sits in with the President. (In fact, I think they stopped giving Trump a daily briefing because he doesn’t pay any attention to them.) The Pres-elect gets a briefing by someone else (or at least is supposed to get one), but it covers the same ground. ---
**Author:** ![deRanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@deRanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deRanger)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-they-invoke-the-25th-amendment/925658/77 "2020-11-18T02:47:48Z")
Pence is a Trump toady who likes to lick Bone Spur’s shoes in supine reverence, like most GOP in Congress. I vowed to never vote GOP again after seeing the botch-job they did on the pandemic, women’s and minorities right, voter registration suppression and ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-they-invoke-the-25th-amendment/925658/78 "2020-11-18T06:03:57Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I thought this was about Biden staffers not being allowed in the briefings given to Trump. 🤨 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-they-invoke-the-25th-amendment/925658/79 "2020-11-18T06:26:44Z")
I dont think they will invoke that. I will give a 50/50 on trump resigning so pence can pardon him. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-they-invoke-the-25th-amendment/925658/80 "2020-11-19T00:31:56Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > You accused the President of criminal acts. As you (should) know, those require proof beyond a reasonable doubt, in court. Not some random rant on the internet. Yes, that’s true - that’s the standard for the state depriving a person of life, liberty, or property via the judicial system. Now what you need to prove is that these ‘random rants on the Internet’ are acting with the power of the state to deprive Trump of life, liberty, or property. Good luck. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-they-invoke-the-25th-amendment/925658.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-they-invoke-the-25th-amendment/925658.md?page=5)